Holder Definitions for Standard Surface toolpaths

[CamMan1]

We have a Mori NH5000 in our shop. Definitely one of the better machine we have. Make sure if you get one of theses that you definitely anchor it down. It is a rigid machine but not as rigid as the older models. Our management decided to set ours on pads on a 8" slab. Not a satisfactory set up. Definitely has plenty of power and speed. Biggest bonus was the memory. Ours has 275,000K standard memory mode and 16,000,000K tape run mode.

[GV]

Guys, this is my first post here.

My way to check the holder in this type of situations is maybe too simple.

I'm creating a 3D contour replicating the closest area where I have to go to the walls using the normal holder definition. Make sure run the path after your toolpath in the verify. Then this you just not post. When you create the tool list will show up with the holder.

I hope it helps.

GV

[kccadcam]

I really wish they would revamp the tool manager so the tool holders could be assigned in the tool libraries.

I will be taking delivery of a horizontal mill in a few weeks and I plan to have 80 standard tools loaded in the machine at all times.

The holders will never change and it would be great if I could set up Mastercam to reflect that.

I think taking care of the holders at the library level is the best way to go.

This is absolutely the biggest thing that needs to change,,,,,

whoever came up with the idea of associating the holder at the operation level instead of the tool library level obviously has never ran a cell.......

We draw every single tool with the spindle and all holder geometry and select "custom file" in the tool definition to avoid all the little nasty gouges and crashes...

I was hoping that with the holder libraries going to .DB style in X6 we would be able to associate the holder to the tool, doesn't look that way......

[K2csq7]

+1 Teh Bear

 

Been drawing tools and holders for years as custom tools, you can give it any profile you want and it will backplot and verify. (Got bit once by a set screw protruding from the holder.... (Don't forget about instructing the operator to take care of the screws)

 

I attached a screenshot showing an old school parallel toolpath with a custom defined tool/holder backplotting, you can also see the quick & easy geo to define the profile...

So easy a 6yr. old non-circle member can do it

[CamMan1]

+1 Teh Bear

 

Been drawing tools and holders for years as custom tools, you can give it any profile you want and it will backplot and verify. (Got bit once by a set screw protruding from the holder.... (Don't forget about instructing the operator to take care of the screws)

 

I attached a screenshot showing an old school parallel toolpath with a custom defined tool/holder backplotting, you can also see the quick & easy geo to define the profile...

So easy a 6yr. old non-circle member can do it

 

Try you method flowlining a closed angle surface with some check surfaces using a lollipop with gouge checking turned off and see how well your method works. But I see what you a trying to say is that your OK with having to draw you profiles for all your tools? I have also been drawing tool profiles for years. Yes anybody fairly proficient in Mastercam can do it. The problem is that we shouldn't have to. We shouldn't have to use workarounds. Luckily David Colin's program helps a lot in selecting a profile. Bottom line is that it needs to be fixed. I agree with kccadcam you should be able to save a tool with a holder as an assembly.

[K2csq7]

I am OK with it... thats not the type of work I do day to day, but as JP said, you have a legit concern.

If you would like to send me one of your flowlining closed angle surface with some check surfaces toolpaths/geo and the info for your tool & holder I would be happy to see if I can help you come up with a workable solution.

 

The problem is that we shouldn't have to.

agreed, but we do... so until it's fixed my offer is on the table

[CamMan1]

I am OK with it... thats not the type of work I do day to day, but as JP said, you have a legit concern.

If you would like to send me one of your flowlining closed angle surface with some check surfaces toolpaths/geo and the info for your tool & holder I would be happy to see if I can help you come up with a workable solution.

 

 

agreed, but we do... so until it's fixed my offer is on the table

 

Like I said I use a program written by David Colin that will select a tool profile you have previously drawn from a specified directory and overwrite the Holder.mcx file in the tools directory. I don't have any problems figuring out workarounds. I have been doing that with Mastercam for almost 20 years. I have used the method that you have described many times. There are instances when you draw the holder as part of the tool and Mastercam looks at the holder part of the tool you have drawn as the actual tool and will not allow for complete tool motion.

[Aeroguy]

What about using the checkholder.dll in the chooks folder. Here you can choose the holder you are using from the holders library.

 

This will tell you if the tool and holder clears your surfaces... and if it doesnt you can modify the tool from within this chook.

 

Well thats a nice little tool. Not being overly familiar with it I have to ask this question. If I run it on a toolpath and it finds that my tool is too short or whatever, will it split the toolpath for me, or do I have to create 2 toolpaths with progressivly(?) longer tools?

If it doesn't then it doesn't really help much other than to tell me my tool is too short, which I would discover anyways after having to run the verify over the model.

[CamMan1]

Well thats a nice little tool. Not being overly familiar with it I have to ask this question. If I run it on a toolpath and it finds that my tool is too short or whatever, will it split the toolpath for me, or do I have to create 2 toolpaths with progressivly(?) longer tools?

If it doesn't then it doesn't really help much other than to tell me my tool is too short, which I would discover anyways after having to run the verify over the model.

 

No it checks holder clearance only. Really only works well for 2D stock in a single plane.

[Aeroguy]

No it checks holder clearance only. Really only works well for 2D stock in a single plane.

 

Ah, I see. Not much use to me really.

[Chris In-House Solutions]

Well thats a nice little tool. Not being overly familiar with it I have to ask this question. If I run it on a toolpath and it finds that my tool is too short or whatever, will it split the toolpath for me, or do I have to create 2 toolpaths with progressivly(?) longer tools?

 

It just tells you that the tool is too short and gives you the option to modify the tool to an appropriate length. It will not split your toolpath and create two separate toolpath's. That would be very slick if it could do that.

 

I guess I didn't really understand the full thread when I sent that reply in and after reading more I understand everyone's frustration. You're right you should be able to save a tool with a holder into a library and gouge check it against your surfaces for multiple jobs. Unfortunately this isn't yet available. For the time being the workaround appears to be drawing your tools with your holders.

 

I am going to copy the link to this form and send it into CNC software. Hopefully I get a reply with an enhancement request or they tell me they are at least working on it for a upcoming version.

[Turf Toes]

There is another way that I've used to work around this problem.

 

Create a ghosted drill point somewhere off the part and use the tool you want as the drill with your toolholder picked.

 

Put that in front of the operation in question, and when you go to verify, the toolholder will show up cleanly and then can be adjusted accordingly!

[CamMan1]

There is another way that I've used to work around this problem.

 

Create a ghosted drill point somewhere off the part and use the tool you want as the drill with your toolholder picked.

 

Put that in front of the operation in question, and when you go to verify, the toolholder will show up cleanly and then can be adjusted accordingly!

 

I have been told that this works by my reseller. I have tried it over and over with different scenarios with no luck. It always defaults back to the Holder.mcx tool profile when I backplot or verify.

[CamMan1]

Well to get back to the main issue. It would be very nice if the next release would include treestyle parameter pages with the ability to select a holder for the standard surface toolpaths. I just believe that if they are going to have the standard toolpath types they should get equal treatment along with the HST. I would just hope that anyone else out there that has the same issue please contact your reseller or CNC Software to request this as an enhancement.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

The main issue I have with toolholder definitions is that they keep changing. I'll pop into an op to change a parameter, not even going to the holder page, and it'll give me the holder-doesn't-match window when I exit. From then on any holder changes won't propagate properly. After tweaking a few tools the holder association is useless and I have to define it for each op separately.

[mr801]

This is definitely a enhancement that I would like to see!! Especially when I am moving tool and holder definitions to Vericut.

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

+1

[McMahon [email protected]]

Has anyone had problems with holders not displaying right in verifying even though the holder shows right in the operation itself. For example I selected a Nikken VC collet holder in the operation, but in back plot and verify is shows as a ER16. Very frustrating, I selected the one I need but can’t verify properly. CNC software says I should be fixed in the next release, I’ve herd that before.

[Gary]

Is this ever going to be possible? It would be great 

[?Mark]

Just build a tool assembly with a holder in tool manager and it'll work beautifully

[Guest]

or just make a quick drill path, add your holder and then save it to the library for future use....

 

But yes, getting these paths updated is something that needs to happen

[Gary]

Yes min, vert. retract ect would all be real nice

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

 

 

or just make a quick drill path, add your holder and then save it to the library for future use....

 

Wat he sed.

 

I'll make a drill op with one point, name it something like "T3 SET HOLDER" and ghost it.  Then if I need to adjust the stickout or something I can go back to that one to make the change.

[BenK]

Wat he sed.

 

I'll make a drill op with one point, name it something like "T3 SET HOLDER" and ghost it.  Then if I need to adjust the stickout or something I can go back to that one to make the change.

 

That's a good idea. I might have to steal it.