On the job Training required

[Lee.]

Hi Everyone,

 

 

I have a FADAL 3016L and am starting to get some work for it, however I am struggling with either machine limitations or possible other issues which I could use a hand figuring out.

 

I am in Edmonton,AB and if anyone has any working knowledge or experience with this machine I would be greatly appreciative of some guidance and/or assistance.

[gcode]

I'm moving this to theMachines and Tools thread..

You'll get more hits there

[NOTW Programmer]

What is it you need, I program and run Fadals every single day unfortunately. They are not the heavy duty machines we need. I can help you out though, ask away !

[Lee.]

Hello Greyman,

 

 

 

I just got in this morning and have to set up for some thread milling, then i promised the missus that i would put up the tree.

 

After that I will come back and explain what is happening etc.

 

Lee.

[Lee.]

Ok,

 

 

 

so I am trying to put a hole in a piece of 4145 in an already finished bearing housing. I don't have a large enough drill so I am first going down with a 3/4 then following that with a 1 1/4

 

It has to finish up with a 2" NPT thread for a nipple to be threaded in.

 

Then I am contouring the rest out with a 1' roughing end mill with .15 step downs and the transition between depths in the hole so not cutting until down at next depth.

 

The machine is vibrating alot and it seems as if the cutter is only cutting on one side.

 

I took the rougher out yesterday to find an indentation on the holder where the taper stops in the spindle at the top, like a ridge.

 

So i'm thinking that when it does a tool change the air is blowing crap down on the the taper and causing this.

 

I am now cleaning tools in between tool changes to try and eliminate this possibility.

 

At this moment I am running the Threadmill and it still seems to be running weird, like it is only cutting on one side also.

 

I have checked the spindle at the bottom and can see no runout.

 

On the threadmill, which is HSS and about 1 1/4 of thread, which as it starts at the bottom cuts all the threads in one sweep, which is quite a bit of load on the cutter and doesn't sound good.

 

The firstime I did this, i did it on a test piece and it worked ok, however that piece was fairly short compared with the seven inches that the vice jaws are open now.

 

The second one was a proper part with not much thickness to the edge, and when the rougher started to work it actually moved the job over in X and when it went for next depth there was no hole to plunge into and cutter smashed.

 

 

Now I have clamps either side stopping any sideways movement but not clamping, just sitting there as stops.

 

Almost got it done but had to slow feed down so much its taken me over 11 hours to complete, and apparently can only charge about an hour a piece, which is really not good.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hope you are not overwhelmed.

 

Lee.

[Reko]

When is the last time someone came in to grind that spindle?

 

As for your part moving around, it sounds like you need to spend a little more time on your fixturing. If you can post a picture of your set up, I can make some recommendations. Short of that, make sure the part is nested properly using a 6 point set up... basically, pinning it in in all 6 directions.

 

Also, make that thread mill cut in several passes. You will take less stock per pass, but your feedrate could then be increased to make up the difference.

 

Good luck.

[Pilot Plant Supervisor]

Check the draw bar tension. The belville washers that provide pressure to the pull stud break often in Fadals. It's been over 15 years since I messed with one, but I remember them being pretty easy to change.

[Lee.]

Last Night I checked the spindle with a dial gauge and a smooth tool that stuck down about 6 inches from bottom of spindle.

 

There was no movement on the dial gauge at all.

 

I will upload a picture as soon as I can.

[Lee.]

Here it is

[Pilot Plant Supervisor]

Fadals are box way machines also, so they require gibs to be adjusted periodically.

[Lee.]

Is there any way I can upload a video of it running with the one inch cobalt end mill cutting?

[Mr. Wizzard]

Try thread milling multi-passes or top to bottom to lessen the forces induced. with it being a round part, won't take much to kick it sideways. Trapping with stops just forces more into the tool, spindle, part. I'd take some lighter cuts.

[heavychevy2155]

I would check the gibs, and adjust if need. You may need to replace thrust bearings for the ball screws if you have alot of hours on the machine.

[NOTW Programmer]

Is there any way I can upload a video of it running with the one inch cobalt end mill cutting?

You can upload the video to the FTP @ ftp://mastercam-cadcam.com user:mastercam pw:swiss, open it through windows explorer to upload. Where are you located I have a technician's number that can adjust your machine back to specs. It might be the Gibs that are too loose or the bearings. +1 On multipass for the thread mill speacially NPT.

[Lee.]

I am located in Edmonton, AB

 

8207 Davies Rd on the south side.

 

I'm leaning towards the gibs also.

 

Lee.

[taperlength]

Do you have a big angle plate? If that part was clamped through the middle with the back against an angle plate, it would be a more rigid set up.

[MotorCityMinion]

It looks like you could also fit a 123 block at the movable jaw, inside the c-bore, and get some more bearing surface to clamp on. One on the solid jaw face as well if similar geometry conditions exist.

[Lee.]

I do have a big angle plate.

 

Next time this job comes up I will give that a try.

 

Motor,

 

Not sure what a 123 block is, and yes both ends are indentical.

 

I did manage to get my time down a bit by using a 2.2188 spade drill but could only feed at 0.15 IPM as it shook like a bugger.

 

Problem is, customer was only paying about 90 bucks for each hole at another place.

 

If I could get the Threadmilling down to 35 minutes might be able to compete.

 

As it stands now, I am using a HSS Threadmilling cutter and taking two swipes with three separate depths and only running at 0.35 IPM so takes ages.

 

Lee

[BrianP.]

Make some tall jaws to get up beyond 1/2 way. Drill holes for clearance for 1/2-13 threaded rod in center of jaws to line up with part. Load part tighten vise run threaded rod through center tighten with nuts front and rear. Should give you a nice rigid set up. It also does not look as though you need a lot of depth. Run smaller tools faster. Drill with maybe a 33/64 drill then go at it with a 1/2 endmill. The larger the endmill the more surface contact and the more it will vibrate. Carbide coated. Something like Garr VRX, MA Ford Tuffcut, SGS Zcarb etc. Bigger is not always better especially on smaller taper lighter machines.

[Lee.]

Hi Brian,

 

 

Thanks for input. That does sound like it would be very rigid.

 

 

I think I may have some issues with gibs, and am thinking of trying to find out for sure over the holidays.

 

Too bad there is no-one in Edmonton willing to help me, hint hint.

 

I'll be back at it tomorrow.

 

Lee.

[High Performance]

Hi Brian,

 

 

Thanks for input. That does sound like it would be very rigid.

 

 

I think I may have some issues with gibs, and am thinking of trying to find out for sure over the holidays.

 

Too bad there is no-one in Edmonton willing to help me, hint hint.

 

I'll be back at it tomorrow.

 

Lee.

 

 

Hi Lee,

 

I am located in Edmonton, and I provide consulting services for CNC manufacturing. I can help you in the future if you need. Please feel free to contact my office at 780 770 4767.

[Lee.]

Hi Lee,

 

I am located in Edmonton, and I provide consulting services for CNC manufacturing. I can help you in the future if you need. Please feel free to contact my office at 780 770 4767.

 

 

I would be interested in talking to you about what you can offer me in the way of advice.

 

If you have time for a coffee and a chat the coffee is always fresh.

 

Lee

[High Performance]

Sounds good Lee, I will contact you when I return to Edmonton. Im currently out of town on holidays. I should be back around Jan 4th or 5th. I will give you a call then.

 

Cheers

Brandon