Okuma MacTurn/Multus or Mazak Integrex j

[Zoffen]

They have a large and very automated parts facility at their factory in Kentucky. Also if you havent been to the Kentucky factory, It would be worth the trip, it will help you see what Mazak is all about. That plant is really not as impressive as their Japanese factories though. But to see the level of automation they use it is very impressive. Especially if you intend to run fully automated yourself.

 

i went to their T3 event in October(?) and i was impressed by their factory. If the ones in japan are more impressive i'm in awe just thinking about them. There are whole sections of the plant with many large machines running, you look around and see a few guys. Very impressive.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

LOL, I have already been told that since I work for an Okuma distributor that my 20 years of machining experience with many, many different brands of machines is no longer valid, no need to remind me.

 

We should include Nakamura in the discussion too so James doesn't feel left out.

 

 

 

 

My man Doug...

 

Thanks for the shout out!

[chris m]

Mazak is usually pretty quick to support their machines

 

Mazak support is usually relatively strong

 

OK, "High Performance," I am really trying to keep my Mazak experience out of this because it was ten years ago and not really relevant to this thread, but you have been ball-washing the company with EVERY post, so help me out a little.

 

These statements are complete and total bullsh!t in my direct experience; if you want to say the machines are good now, you might be right, but ease up on the "Mazak is a great company" song because I just can't handle it anymore.

[chris m]

Double post deleted

[Joe788]

OK, "High Performance," I am really trying to keep my Mazak experience out of this because it was ten years ago and not really relevant to this thread, but you have been ball-washing the company with EVERY post, so help me out a little.

 

These statements are complete and total bullsh!t in my direct experience; if you want to say the machines are good now, you might be right, but ease up on the "Mazak is a great company" song because I just can't handle it anymore.

 

I've been buying Mazaks for 8 years, and my experience mirrors High Performance's.

[chris m]

Joe, you've also been a member of this forum for a long time and have contributed much to it, so we have a feel for where you're coming from, whereas High Performance is new member who, with every post I have read on this forum thus far (not just this thread) has been fluffing Mazak. I could be wrong, but I b!tch at the Mori / Nakamura / Okuma apps and sales guys for their lack of objectivity and this fellow seems to be pitching for one team. Like I said, I loathe the Yamazaki Mazak Corporation, but it has nothing to do with T_Malena's post, so I am trying really hard to let folks with direct experience talk to the subject.

 

C

[High Performance]

You dont know me, and because it says I have only several posts here doesnt mean im new here. I have been around here for years. Im going to excuse your ignorance this one time.

 

Im not about to get into a pissing match with someone I've never met over a web forum because they dont agree with my opinion.

 

The final choice will be ours though. I'm obviously leaning to Okuma, but I wanted to hear from some strong Mazak supporters. You never know maybe I'm missing something.

 

My comments were a direct response to this

 

Like I said, I loathe the Yamazaki Mazak Corporation, but it has nothing to do with T_Malena's post, so I am trying really hard to let folks with direct experience talk to the subject.

 

I have direct experience. I work with different machine tools and controls every single day.

[Greg Williams]

if the mazak applications guy said they didnt even know how to make your part.

 

 

This would be ringing the alarm bell for me. If the apps guy does not know how to make your part then he, and the company he represents would be shown the door

[robk]

We have quite a few different brands of machines in here including Mazak and Okuma... No problems with either one.

BTW, we never had any problems with Mazak support/service.

[chris m]

You dont know me, and because it says I have only several posts here doesnt mean im new here. I have been around here for years. Im going to excuse your ignorance this one time

 

OK,

 

1) You have 16 posts, and your join date is a month ago, so understand where my "ignorance" comes from

2) I am going to step back from how irritated I am about the tone of your comment regarding how you are going to "excuse my ignorance this one time," and admit that perhaps my Mazak issues have clouded my perception on this one. I'll stay out of this thread from here on, as I have nothing to add, but please don't patronize me again.

 

C

[T_MALENA]

Wow. look at all the comments. There will have to be a lot more positive comments than what has been posted for me to lean toward Mazak. Now in our Indania facility, it's Mazak. Here in Ohio my preference is still Okuma. As stated in my prev. post "the Mazak local sales/support" is kind of a joke. I worked with them on a prev project & they were just playing stupid when they were here. I sh!t you not, he put his head in his hands & moaned "I dont know how we are going to do this" I was speachless! There cant be a sales ploy in that, can there?

 

Thanks for the input guys.

[Joe788]

Wow. look at all the comments. There will have to be a lot more positive comments than what has been posted for me to lean toward Mazak. Now in our Indania facility, it's Mazak. H

Thanks for the input guys.

 

LOL. I guess it depends on how you read the comments. In order they were added:

Watcher - Says WFL

Doug - Works for Okuma

Greg - Works for Okuma

Chris - Has lots of positive Okuma experience, had a terrible experience with Mazak

Goetz - Doesn't have an Integrex

Jeremy - Has one, says you get what you pay for

High Performance - Loves them

David - Works for Mori

Luca - Has Integrexes, and likes them

Me - Bought Mazaks with my own money, both new and used, and love them.

Robk - Has Integrexes and Okumas, (including the largest Integrex Mazak makes) likes them both, no problems with support.

[crazy^millman]

Well I will chime in for what it worth.

 

I love Mazak's and have used them for well over 20 years. I have had some good ones and I have some bad ones. I can say the same thing for just about every machine out there. An Okuma only guy going to a Mazak will take 6 to 8 months to be totally comfortable with one IMHO. I do not care how sharp you are they are different and do things differently. I have done some really trick stuff, but would always tell someone looking at an Integrex go only with the E-Series type. I do not like the Limited Y axis on Slant machines and say that about all Fake Y axis machines that call themselves Mill-Turns. Program one for some years and then get back to me where having 11" of Y travels verse 2" to 4" of Y axis travel make a difference. I got some videos and pictures of things I did on the Integrex and have a picture right now on my web site of something done in the Integrex I helped work on. You being an Okuma guy are going ot lean towards Okuma nothing wrong with that and if all the rest of the machine you have are Okuma I recommend staying with what you know. Now if all the other parts of your company are Mazak, then I would tread lightly. You better have big shoulders and be willing to prove yourself every time a part comes into your branch. It kind of puts you out there on a Island going against the grain. I would also look at going with the Mazak as something new to learn to see how other machine do things and run. I also got 2 year service agreements on any Quote and then P.O. when I was purchasing machines years ago, but it may be standard now. To say one is head and shoulder over the other is more personal preference IMHO. Most of the machines today on this side of the fence are good machines, you start going down from here and that is a horse of a different breed then.

 

Hopefully it is enough positive to at least make you think.

 

P.S. Chris is one of those people I have a great deal of respect for on this board so I would never take anything he says wrong without really reading what he is really saying.

 

[GoetzInd]

I have done some really trick stuff, but would always tell someone looking at an Integrex go only with the E-Series type. I do not like the Limited Y axis on Slant machines and say that about all Fake Y axis machines that call themselves Mill-Turns.

 

+100. We have some "fake y" machines and they are fairly limited when you start getting into more mill type parts.

 

Mike

[Mick]

I like Okumas. I have little experience with Mazaks.

 

We have a Multus B400W, with a P200L control. The controls are great, and I much prefer Okuma controls over anything else (including Fanucs). The machine is very capable, and support is fantastic. I've programmed and supported a Multus B400W at my last workplace as well. I use a Postability post, which we've tweaked, (and we're tweaking right now to add more features).

 

Toolchange in MDI on a Multus? Its nothing.

 

MT=02001

M321

 

Thats it. Calls tool number 20, and toolchanges.

 

Someone mentioned Okuma t-shirts... I love one

 

Just my 2c worth

[crazy^millman]

Mike they are great for round parts with cross holes and stuff like that, but problem is people hear mill/turn and all the parts that should not go on them do. So I say save yourself the grief and get a real mill turn is just my 2 cents worth.

 

T01M6 calls Tool One in MDI on an Integrex.

[Greg Williams]

Greg - Works for Okuma

 

Not any more

[High Performance]

Mike they are great for round parts with cross holes and stuff like that, but problem is people hear mill/turn and all the parts that should not go on them do. So I say save yourself the grief and get a real mill turn is just my 2 cents worth.

 

T01M6 calls Tool One in MDI on an Integrex.

 

I agree with the fake y axis comment. the slant bed style mtm machines are excellent for parts with mostly turning and some small amounts of milling and drilling, but for parts with more milling the slant style makes its limitations very obvious. For complex milled parts, the E series Integrex or Mori NT style machine is much better. Trying to machine five axis on spindle 2 causes grief with Integrex MkIV machines as well.

 

Thats one way for toolchanging, but the method that I was referring to with MDI on the integrex is actually even easier than that,

 

MDI mode, press toolchange softkey, type tool number, press input, cycle start. Laser tool measurement works the same way. Very simple

[Greg Williams]

Trying to machine five axis on spindle 2 causes grief with Integrex MkIV

machines as well.

 

 

Just out of interest does RTCP work on spindle 2 on your Mazak?

 

 

 

the slant bed style mtm machines are excellent for parts with mostly turning and

some small amounts of milling and drilling, but for parts with more milling the

slant style makes its limitations very obvious

 

 

I agree the Slant style is a problem if you want to cut below X zero

[compressor sam]

Not really your original question, but a WFL MillTurn G series (35G / 40G 65G) can offer dual spindles as well...

 

And these are very robust machines... with an excellent service and support when compared with Mazaks and Moris... at least in our experience...

 

 

Hey Watcher +1 on the WFL`s, we have two m120`s, and an old 700 wfl, bullet proof !

[chris m]

Chris is one of those people I have a great deal of respect for on this board

 

Thanks, Ron, back at you with the same.

 

C

[T_MALENA]

Ahh yea, this is what I was hoping for. The tech. stuff from you long time forum members & others I remember from my past Multi-axis endevors. I remember the BS I went through on a Okuma LU300 y-axis wedge style! That is one of the +'s for Mazak. But this is in a dedicated cell that only needs +/-3" in y. So not as critical but options are nice. Now doesn't Mazak & Mori use a machine config similar to ADDING a virtical mill to a lathe? So the y-axis is travelling like a mill, x is diameter & z is left/right. The Multis, Takasawa etc use a wedge of x & y to result in y-axis.? I'm not sure on the MacTurn's, Chris or Doug?

As Ron stated a learning curve 6-8months on a Mazak compared to 0 on the Okuma is a concern I have. Thats why I'm posting here. I dont have that much time once the PO is placed. Once this hits the floor it better be running production in less than a few weeks. I can however have more time prior to delivery to runoff at the sales office or at Mfg, just not 6months.

Comments from respected members definately have me thinking. - Thanks

[T_MALENA]

Also Mori & others are not a option. Not that they are junk or anything, we are standardizing on Okuma or Mazak. We'd like to be consistant through all our plants, but all Mazak in one plant & all Okuma in the other isn't a bad thing.

[High Performance]

Now doesn't Mazak & Mori use a machine config similar to ADDING a virtical mill to a lathe? So the y-axis is travelling like a mill, x is diameter & z is left/right. The Multis, Takasawa etc use a wedge of x & y to result in y-axis.?

 

For Mazak the E, I and J series Integrex all use square bed style machines where the Y axis comes directly outward (no wedge style compond axis). They have full range of travel E670 is 30+" off the top of my head. Only the "standard" integrex uses a wedge design. In lathe mode the X is diameter or rad (depending on modal commands) and the Z is left and right, however for milling, with G68 tilted work plane active, the Z is the tool axis regardless of its orientation, and the x and Y are relative to your rotation of the coordinate system thats been commanded. It makes programming very easy for milling. Change the tool plane in mastercam and the post spits out G68 for you. Works very well.

[High Performance]

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