Big Plus/Dual Contact holders

[jeff]

Where do you guys buy yours from?

Big Daishowa/Big Kaiser wants a LOT of money for theirs, about 6x more than a regular 1/2" endmill holder.

What 3rd party supplier do you guys get yours from? Are they less expensive, same quality?

[gcode]

I don't have any alternate sources for Big Plus holders but we've got two Big Plus mills

and I'm on Kaiser's email list.

I occasionally get flyer's from them stating that many aftermarket Big Plus tool holders are not to

spec and can damage your spindle or draw bar. True?? marketing BS ??? I have no idea.

 

I'm not sure spending the extra $$$ for a Big Plus holder for a small tool like a 1/2" endmill is going

to be worth it.

I tend to spend the Big Plus $$ on boring head holders and big face mills

[jeff]

I don't have any alternate sources for Big Plus holders but we've got two Big Plus mills

and I'm on Kaiser's email list.

I occasionally get flyer's from them stating that many aftermarket Big Plus tool holders are not to

spec and can damage your spindle or draw bar. True?? marketing BS ??? I have no idea.

 

I'm not sure spending the extra $$$ for a Big Plus holder for a small too like a 1/2" endmill is going

to be worth it.

I tend to spend the Big Plus $$ on boring head holders and big face mills

I was actually thinking of getting their 1/2" hydraulic holder or Mega E chuck because my main tool for HSM is a 1/2" endmill. And I often get the "glazing" on my tool holder taper.

I think it's more marketing bs than anything because the patent is up (I think) and they aren't the only ones making the dual contact holder.

 

My logic is that a dual contact holder of either a hydraulic or Mega E chuck will get rid of the glazing issue and also help with tool life. Right now I am just using a side lock solid endmill holder.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Lyndex/Nikken has a few different options. They used to have (still do?) a dual contact called "3lock", which I have used and liked in the past. Seems they are phasing that out and going with a more tradition approach. FWIW, I believe Lyndex/Nikken holders to be every bit as good as Kaisers. Their SK collet system is on par with the "Mega E" system IMO.

 

http://www.lyndexnikken.com/pc/catalog/taper%20plus%20catalog%202014-03052014%20web.pdf

[cincy k]

Marketing BS. Kaiser stuff is nice, no doubt, but they've stuck it to their customers on pricing for years and now have actual competition that they want to smear. I would use Lyndex without hesitation. Can't be that difficult to measure a taper angle to a flange face... 

[robk]

FYI, we have had a Ø.500 End mill pull out of hydraulic holder a few months back. Cutting Ti casting @ 535 sfm & .0067 ipt. Axial DOC of approx .300" and Radial DOC of .020" . The cutter was 6 flute Kennametal HARVI III end mill being held in Kennametal trend line holder. Very expensive part had to be sent back to France for weld repair.

Went back to using shrink fit and Rego Fix instead of hydraulic holders for any sort of milling. Just our experience in here...

That being said, all of our BigPlus is either Sandvik or Big Daishowa

[jeff]

FYI, we have had a Ø.500 End mill pull out of hydraulic holder a few months back. Cutting Ti casting @ 535 sfm & .0067 ipt. Axial DOC of approx .300" and Radial DOC of .020" . The cutter was 6 flute Kennametal HARVI III end mill being held in Kennametal trend line holder. Very expensive part had to be sent back to France for weld repair.

Went back to using shrink fit and Rego Fix instead of hydraulic holders for any sort of milling. Just our experience in here...

That being said, all of our BigPlus is either Sandvik or Big Daishowa

Shrink fit isn't an option sadly. At least not at this time.

The last time I looked, Sandvik didn't have a big selection of Big Plus holders, has that changed? Are you using the Coro 930 series?

[gcode]

I'm running a Ø1 and  Ø3/4 five flutes in Ti right now with dynamic tool paths

I was a little worried about the 3/4 endmill pulling, but so far its running fine.

This is my first time running Ti /dynamic toolpaths so I'm being a punk about it

I'd rather take a little longer to do it right than explain why a $30k piece of Ti is junk

 

I'm running the 1" on a 2d dynamic contour  1.7" LOC .05 radial 220 sfm and .004 ipt ( 38 ipm)

the 3/4 is doing a 3D dynamic, roughing out a pocket

220 sfm .75 LOC .05 radial and .0035 ipt

 

I'm using  Rego-Fix holders with thru spindle CF collets

I'm obviously running on the mellow side , You can't even hear the tools cutting

The machine has a Big Plus spindle, but I'm pretty sure these RegoFix holders are not BigPlus

[robk]

Shrink fit isn't an option sadly. At least not at this time.

The last time I looked, Sandvik didn't have a big selection of Big Plus holders, has that changed? Are you using the Coro 930 series?

Yes we use CoroChuck 930 in C5, C6, and C8 sizes

[Guest]

I like to use the Rego-Fix PowrGrip Big-Plus holders. I've had Real good results with them.

[Mick]

Yes we use CoroChuck 930 in C5, C6, and C8 sizes

 

I'll back the Corochuck 930's up. They're great chucks. We have an Okuma MU500V-II with a Big Plus spindle.

 

We use Sandvik Coromants Big Plus 40 taper holders in C5, then mount whatever chucks etc we need (all chucks etc are C5 Capto). Makes for a great modular system.

[?Mark]

Most holder manufacturers offer those, but under different names. My fav is lyndex nikken.

The problem with bug plus is all or nothing... Mixing different holder types could be an issue...as in dirt/chips between holder and the face of the spindle...

[Newbeeee™]

The problem with bug plus is all or nothing... Mixing different holder types could be an issue...as in dirt/chips between holder and the face of the spindle...

I have read this before but never had the issue.

One of our Robos is big plus, the other not. We run Big/Daishowa BBT's for any roughing and facemills and mix for the others with no problems.

On the Robos, the one with BBT spindle will run 30% faster feeds as it is a lot more rigid.

[PAnderson]

I don't have any alternate sources for Big Plus holders but we've got two Big Plus mills

and I'm on Kaiser's email list.

I occasionally get flyer's from them stating that many aftermarket Big Plus tool holders are not to

spec and can damage your spindle or draw bar. True?? marketing BS ??? I have no idea.

 

I'm not sure spending the extra $$$ for a Big Plus holder for a small tool like a 1/2" endmill is going

to be worth it.

I tend to spend the Big Plus $$ on boring head holders and big face mills

 

Marketing BS or not, using an unauthorized Big Plus holder could void your warranty. We just ran tests a few months ago to get Kennametal authorized as approved vendors for their line of Big Plus tool holders here at Doosan. Tolerances are much tighter for taper and gauge line for these and yes, there are some manufacturers that do NOT hold them. Your machine, your spindle and you're probably safe using name brand tool holders. But I would ask.

 

Paul

[Newbeeee™]

^^^I'd love to see a drawing for a BBT spindle and holder - I'd love to see the grinding tolerances and know how they check them.

I did a lot of reading back in the day regarding the Robodrill, and by memory with no pullstud in and the tool hand placed in the spindle, there should be a 7micron (3 tenths) gap between spindle face and holder face.

I remember holding a torch behind the spindle shining it at my eyes to see the gap, and the light was pretty dark - I think when the gap gets down it becomes 'blue light' (again by memory).

So when the pull stud is inplace and the drawbar is tugging, there is plastic deformation on either the spindle or holder (or a bit of both?) to allow the faces to meet.

It works a treat, but seems very agricultural.

 

That said, D Lock lathe (manual) spindles are similar in principle I suppose, although shorter and steeper taper, but still face and taper.

I'd like to see a manufacturing drawing for both spindle and back plate for this as well.

 

(Note to self - must get out more...)

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

Big Kaiser. Great stuff. Only BigPlus tooling I'll buy. Worth every penny.