Boycott

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...illegal immigrant...

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Should criminal behaviour be rewarded with something so prized as a Driver's License? I dare think not. A Driver's license is a PRIVILIGE not a right.

 

People can protest all they want but by and large better that 60% of the population is against DL's for illegals anyway. It has nothing to do withthe nation of origin, Illegal is illegal period - endo of story.

 

JM2C

[Rekd™]

quote:

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I believe it could be a good thing

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A good thing? Are you serious? Why is that? You want to get your mom over here illegally as well and not have to taxi her xxxx around yourself? Hell, bring the whole damn family! We'll put you on our welfare system, pay your taxes, feed you, and you just go and enjoy yourself at OUR expense. And don't worry if you get into an accident that you can't pay for, we'll pick up the tab on that too!

 

quote:

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because the immigrant community is not united

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You want to unite them by issuing legal documents to illegal imigrants? How 'bout we give that child molester next door to you a key to your house, so while you're gone to work, he can come and have his way with your children! Does that make sense to you? Will that unite you? Are you starting to see the idiocy of your post yet? Lets continue..

 

quote:

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and this might be a cause that might bring a solution to a problem not yet solved.

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A problem? What problem is that? That if you're illegally here you feel you should be able to participate in our privileges? I don't think so! Get legal, THEN you can participate. Until then, GET OUT! WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE!

 

quote:

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In the least it keeps the subject up to find a good solution.

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Again, solution to what? To help get the rest of your family here so I can pay for them to eat, sleep, drive, be insured, and ABUSE this country some more??? I'm holding up a finger, guess which one it is... (No, not a thumb..)

 

quote:

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I came to the US as an illegal immigrant and now as a Nationlized US Citzen embrace the principles of this nation which for me in this case differ from many of you,

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The only thing you embrace is the possibility of getting the rest of your family over here illegally and sucking up all the free crap you can't get now! Way to take advantage..

 

quote:

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(if that puts me in your black list) (shrug) I believe it's my right, my opinion and i'm sticking to it. Thank you.

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You want to be respected? You want to be united? The do something for the community once in a while instead of sucking it dry like a leach! It's people like you that make my blood boil with your ignorance and the belief that you deserve every right as an illegal imigrant that we have as a citizen. Well guess what.. YOU DON'T! And don't worry about my 'black list', worry more about my black-powder muzzle loader!!!!

 

'Rekd teh OUT!

[mold100]

+1

 

Corey teh now with both barrels

[Scott Bond]

quote:

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as a Nationlized US Citzen embrace the principles of this nation

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Bingo,,,F. JAVIER ,,Come On Down!"

 

If the guys do that I have no problem with it.

If the guys don't , then why would I want them here?.

Don't lower the stadards.

 

Scott teh' I would never alter a gauge pin to fit the part.

[F. JAVIER]

quote:

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If the guys do that I have no problem with it.

If the guys don't , then why would I want them here?.

Don't lower the stadards.

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I am not lowering the standards, I had the opportunity to become legalized with the amnesty law R. Reagan signed and am (I believe) a law abiding citizen; came here for the wrong reasons (ran away from home) and as illegal as illegal can be and as bad as that may seem to many of you the problem is not as you would say black and white, it is not the generalization that just because a person is illegal they will tend to do illegal acts (as has been inferred) some of them may be just as evil as anybody else and they should be kept out of this country (even out of this world) but this "illegal" have been some of your friends, wives, parents and grandparents and as you know, life is different for all, the problem is not that they want to come and take your job, your food, or criminalize your country, I'm sure you'd do the same thing to feed your kids... So now that I'm a US citizen should I forget those less fortunate than me? I invite you to do somthing that really will make a difference which is to inform yourself... "I Rigoberta Menchu" is a book that really describes culture and poverty as it really is in actual times and from the voice of one who really lived thru it.

One other is to really thank God you live here and are allowed the opportunity others don't have, Americans (including my kids) do not know the opportunities sometimes they let pass by.

this might be why to some of you it is as clear as water but to me... I've been beaten in it and still carry some mud, guess my back is still wet... but I can still walk proud.

F. Javier

[mold100]

I guess my problem isnt with you directly so I would watch how you take the contex, my theroy is

we as American born and raised here realize we have our own problems to deal with and everyone who runs from their problems in there own country come here take full advantage of our offerings and thus turning thier problems into our problems.

Look I am glad you decided to be in the say 10 % bracket that decided to work and pay taxes rather than work under the table and suck the system, You CAN NOT deny this happens.It is not a cultural

thing either its whats right and ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL, therefore having no US rights IMO.

[mayday]

quote:

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we have our own problems to deal with

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Seems a lot of our time is spent on the problems of having Illegals here. why do they bother wanting a license. they got here illegaly, they prolly drive illegaly with an illegaly gotten car with no insurance. remember what happened when they got a pilots license.

 

born with 2 feet? start walkin home, to hell with a ride

[d00d]

quote:

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the problem is not as you would say black and white, it is not the generalization that just because a person is illegal they will tend to do illegal acts (as has been inferred)

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COMING here as an illegal IS an illegal act! This so stupid it is almost laughable! This is the same as someone saying that It was raining so I broke into your house,I had a good reason so it's legal, and now I get to live in your house rent free. I dont know wht the hell you think your selling, but I sure as hell aint buyin it!

 

[ 12-15-2003, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: d00d ]

[crazy^millman]

So here is the problem with this whole issue. People are takign this the wrong way and a insult to their culture, to their nationality, t owhat they see as their way of life. It plain and simple in the facts of what is right and worng is wrong end of story. If the person is here illegal and that beign the most important thing then they don't belong here thus they should not get the prilevge you and I get and through what ever means we are legally here. Be it an American citzen, Workign Visa, Green Card, or the other 100 different ways. That is the bottom line liek it or not like it was siad it is a pliverage not a right.

 

We as Americans do have it easy and we do have more than almost any other country in the world. I understand that people want to do better for their familes and have a better life. Our worst taken care of people have it 100 times better than most countires best care. These facts have not a damn thing to do with a licence. The licence is a legal lawfully document use to idenfify a legal and lwaful driver on our highways. What is to keep a drunk driver in an another country that is here illegally from gettign a licence and killing your whole family cause he is here illegally we cant chyeck his records and know. I just hope it is not any of your fmaily that is killed. To the people who support this action of giving them a licence if it is your family then you can be sad or upset you brought it on yourself!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh yeah and if they kill your family with a terroist act don't get mad about that either!!!!!

 

Crazy Millman

[Lathe-Mill]

people not again please..!!!!

 

you guys still beating that cow?...it has been dead for a lonnnng lonnng time, focus please focus...while "we" pick on the less fortuned look behind the curtain and really see what is going on.

 

i was born in puerto rico (i am a u.s citizen )...in my mind i truelly became a u.s citizen when i moved here from puerto rico.

i follow the rules i do all i am suppossed to do to be a good u.s citizen.

but the issue about of illegals is the less of my worries.

illegals or not illegals we are in a globalization era... and we should be concentrating on how keep the work here in the u.s soil, while we complaint about a simple thin read what is really going on:

 

 

IBM to Move Software Jobs to India, China

 

"!! 4 hours ago !!"

 

ARMONK, N.Y. - IBM Corp. plans to move up to several thousand skilled software jobs from the United States to India, China and other countries, which could amount to one of the biggest such actions yet in the technology industry.

 

IBM documents obtained by The Wall Street Journal said about 4,700 programming jobs could be shifted overseas to save costs, a growing high-tech industry trend known as "offshoring."

 

More than 900 people are already scheduled to be told of the move in the first half of 2004, while another 3,700 jobs have been identified as having the "potential to move offshore," the Journal said. IBM already has hired 500 engineers in India to take on some of the work that will be moved, the Journal reported.

 

The division affected is IBM's Application Management Services group, part of Big Blue's huge technology services division. The IBM facilities where workers could be replaced include offices in Dallas, Southbury, Conn., Poughkeepsie, N.Y., Raleigh, N.C., and Boulder, Colo.

 

IBM spokesman James Sciales said he would not comment on "internal presentations" but noted that most of IBM's work force, which now totals 315,000, has been overseas for years. Sciales also released a statement saying IBM expects hiring in the United States next year will match or exceed 2003 levels.

 

While companies long ago began moving manufacturing jobs and other blue-collar work to Asia, big business is now increasingly shifting skilled work there as well. According to International Data Corp., foreign workers performed about 5 percent of information technology services for American companies this year, but by 2007, that share will grow to 23 percent.

 

Often, the American workers being replaced are called upon to train their overseas replacements. The same will be expected of IBM employees whose jobs are being transferred, according to the Journal.

 

In a speech this fall, IBM chief Sam Palmisano defended the practice of going to Asian countries for skilled labor, saying those nations not only offer lower wages but also have invested heavily in education and modern communications networks.

 

He said the United States should respond with increased investments of its own to remain innovative.

 

"China, India, South Korea and other rapidly developing nations are replicating the structural advantages that historically have made the U.S. the center of innovation," Palmisano told the Council on Competitiveness in Washington on Oct. 30.

 

"We can't _ shouldn't _ regret improvements in other nations' competitiveness. Their people deserve to participate fully in the benefits of innovations."

 

IBM shares were down 60 cents to close at $92.11 on the New York Stock Exchange.

 

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Lathe-Mill]

and for what is worth, the people you call illegals, they are geting the jobs without even coming here....imaging you guys if you need to get overthere for a job?...please read:

 

 

U.S., 5 Countries Work on Free Trade Pact

 

3 hours ago

 

By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer

 

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration, stymied in efforts to create a hemisphere-wide free trade zone, is trying to first take a smaller bite of the apple by establishing an alliance with five countries in Central America.

But even this scaled-down free trade agreement, which could be finalized as early as Tuesday, is running into stiff opposition from U.S. textile companies, the sugar industry and American unions.

Negotiators from the United States and the five Central American countries _ Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua _ met for an eighth day Monday at a downtown Washington hotel trying to overcome the final obstacles to completing a pact.

The U.S. side and the Latin American negotiators all expressed optimism that a deal can be reached by the self-imposed deadline of Tuesday.

 

"I would say that we are very, very close to a final agreement," said Mario Arana, minister of industry and trade for Nicaragua.

 

U.S. officials also described the talks as close to completion but cautioned that unforeseen last-minute snags could jeopardize the goal of getting a deal done this week, especially given the complexity of the negotiations.

 

The administration sees a Central American Free Trade Agreement, or CAFTA, as a stepping stone to the bigger prize of a Free Trade Agreement of the Americas, or FTAA, which would cover all 34 democracies in the Western Hemisphere.

 

At talks last month in Miami, the administration was forced to accept a watered-down outline for the FTAA that will allow each nation to determine the extent it is willing to lower trade barriers on various politically sensitive industries.

 

That compromise covered over deep disagreements between the United States and Brazil concerning the scope of the negotiations that were threatening to derail the entire enterprise.

 

Faced with that setback, the administration is forging ahead with efforts to strike as many free trade agreements as possible with willing countries, hoping to pressure holdouts such as Brazil with the prospect that their competitors will gain barrier-free access to the United States, the world's biggest market, while they will be left behind.

 

The administration earlier this year won congressional passage of free trade deals with Chile and Singapore, which will take effect Jan. 1. Those two countries will join Mexico, Canada, Israel and Jordan as the only countries that currently have free trade agreements with the United States.

 

But while the Chile and Singapore pacts passed with little opposition, opponents think they have a good chance of defeating the Central American deal in Congress.

 

The biggest opposition is coming from labor unions, who fear the loss of more jobs as American workers are subjected to competition from low-wage countries, and the textile and sugar industries, who contend the deal will trigger a flood of imports from the five countries.

 

"As it now stands, CAFTA would result in the loss of thousands of U.S. apparel and textile jobs," said Mark Levinson, chief economist for UNITE, the Union of Neddletrades, Industrial and Textile Workers. "CAFTA is good for big retailers, not for apparel and textile workers."

 

American growers of sugar cane and sugar beet, a political force in 42 states, fear the increased competition that could come if sugar imports from the five CAFTA countries are allowed into the United States without the steep tariffs imposed on sugar imports from other countries. The five Central American countries currently produce 2 million tons of sugar annually, more than the United States is currently importing.

 

Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., last week produced a study contending that increased imports from Central America could wipe out the U.S. sugar beet industry and greatly reduce cane sugar production in the United States.

 

"The sugar industry in our region and the family farms and rural communities it sustains would be devastated," Dorgan said.

 

Faced with this type of opposition, there is speculation that the administration may not even try to get a vote on the Central America deal in 2004, a presidential election year.

 

But administration officials contend that they have had success putting together coalitions of groups that stand to gain from free trade.

 

To bolster the chances for CAFTA, the administration has already announced that it will negotiate an agreement early next year to add the Dominican Republic to the agreement before presenting it to Congress in hopes of picking up the support of key New York Democrats, including Rep. Charles Rangel, who have large constituencies from the Dominican Republic in their districts.

___

 

Associated Press reporter Nestor Ikeda contributed to this report.

 

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

[ 12-15-2003, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Lathe-Mill ]

[Lathe-Mill]

question!!!!!

 

now, what we do?

 

[F. JAVIER]

I wish I had the time to reply to all your opinions because I agree with all of you that this is a big problem and neither do I take it personally, the only problem I disagree is that while this people may be here illegally, driving themback, shooting them back or kicking them back is not the solution..... I imagine some of you smiling there sitting in your chair and smiling thinking... YEAH! tHAT;S WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO! Well... this is why I love this country, It is a true free and humane society that has grown due to the strength that the immigrants have brought with them. (Ask the indians about that if you don't believe me) This is a great country and all honest hardworking (including illegal honest hardworking) people worry about the same problems that you worry about, rampant drug problems, in school, education, economy, lower moral values, etc. this are the same people going into church as you are coming out from the english services, this are your neighbors and whether you like it or not, this problem needs to be resolved in a way that shows America the great country it is. I gotta go. Good luck

F. Javier

[F. JAVIER]

Agree with you lathe-Mill

Bye.

[robk]

quote:

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Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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Somebody is breaking the law here

 

Rob

[Lathe-Mill]

robk, i left that there for sarcasm, and to prove a point, people get hang up in the little things and not the big picture, you replayed was only about that final note, but did you read the article completly?....the important text of the article?...

[F. JAVIER]

JEEZ, Lathe-Mill, and I thought all I had to worry about was the flu!

[Shady]

I agree with most that it is a serious problems..it has even made it to west va. with local sawmills hiring illegals. The only solice that i can take is: If Mexico was paying machinists 80 bucks an hour with holidays sick pay pension and free tequila...well, dont you think that I wouldnt be trying to get into Mexico. I may be honest and try to be hard working...but stupid im not!

I understand why they come...I feel for them on a personal level...but life isnt fair. That can really suck sometimes, but the Gov. needs to take it more serious...keep them out..if they get in...put them back out....make them do it legally. Protect the rights of u.s. citizens...immigrants will appreciate it when and if they are deemed u.s. citizens. Thanks for listening ~~~Shady

[Rekd™]

I'm curious why this is not shown on normal media channels... It seems completely stupid to me.

 

quote:

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Some of the most violent criminals at large today are illegal aliens. Yet in cities where the crime these aliens commit is highest,

the police cannot use the most obvious tool to apprehend them: their immigration status.

In Los Angeles, for example, dozens of members of a ruthless Salvadoran prison gang have sneaked back into town after having been deported for such crimes as murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and drug trafficking. Police officers know who they are and know that their mere presence in the country is a felony. Yet should a cop arrest an illegal gangbanger for felonious reentry, it is he who will be treated as a criminal, for violating the LAPD’s rule against enforcing immigration law.

 

The LAPD’s ban on immigration enforcement mirrors bans in immigrant-saturated cities around the country, from New York and Chicago to San Diego, Austin, and Houston. These “sanctuary policies” generally

prohibit city employees, including the cops, from reporting immigration violations to federal authorities

.

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quote:

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• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

 

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

 

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

---

Go figure...

[Scott Bond]

quote:

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I'm curious why this is not shown on normal media channels...

---

Hi Rekd

The way I figure...

If doesn't directly help

"Kerry's war against the white house",

The Media doesn't give a tap.

[chip]

Scott, I got that new 007...It's cool! I'm at the one where It's a cemetary setting. The guys in the tower. You have to go in the tower etc...I can't get past that one! I like the way it's not 1st person. You checked that one out?

 

I'm Mexican, I don't think anyone illegal should be given a licence, that doesn't apply for citizenship. Irish immigrants, anyone. My grandma was born in an adobe house in Florance Arizona, She still owns the property they all grew up in. I just know that 1/3 of my paycheck ain't going to damn near anything that benefits me!

 

These new icons are cool! I have been so busy I havn't been on this forum for a while!

[Scott Bond]

Hi Chip

My boy plays the Bond game your talken about,,But

I heven't even seen the first James Bond movie yet.

quote:

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I'm Mexican, I don't think anyone illegal should be given a licence, that doesn't apply for citizenship. Irish immigrants, anyone.

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I'm a gringo myself,I feel the same way.

 

Nice be back Chip

[Phil Orenstein]

Well, I logged on this late Fri nite to get some Mastercam insights but I was 'hijacked' into this thread. Actually the discussions here are a lot more dignified and intelligent than any other political forum I've ever been on dealing with the real hot button political and moral issues of the day, The Mideast crisis, Good & Evil, Individual vs State, Democracy vs Tyranny,,which I enjoy discussing with mature people. There are so many spoiled, hateful, anti-American, anti-Semetic, pro-Marxist xxxx at large that they make regular on-line discussion impossible.

 

Here's my take. The American revolution, the victory of a rag tag army fighting for Liberty against a tyranical empire triggered a world wide revolution of human rights never known to man. It was actually started when the Puritans escaped from the religious persecutiton of the Church of England. Bear with me now, I'm getting to the point of this thread. This is our inheritance as American citizens. We should wear it proudly, protect and defend it against any threat. One threat as Rekd so eloquently put it is the iilegal immigrant problem. Why? because things basically changed after 9/11 and we are at war now. My grandparents were immigrants too but now that we are in a war to protect our American heritage from enemies who would destroy it, becuase we are free, one of their methods- by crossing our borders, entering our nation illegally, and trying to gain citizenship while plotting agisnt us. Wake up! It's happening!

 

Now, hang on, I'm getting to the point. Mexico is a constitutional democracy on paper. In reality it is an impoverished, un-educated, feudal third world country where land ownwers control the population and the contryside is ruled by drug lords who pay off the police, who in turn protect them becuase their salaries are so low. Voting is rigged and the status quo is maintained by Vincente Fox and his corrupt wealthy 10%. Yadda Yadda Yadda. And that is why they risk their lives to come here, where in the words of an immigrant "the poor are fat".

 

If anyone is still listening, here's the point. Rather than escaping from their own collective karma and destiny, they have to learn from us, stand and fight the corruption around them rather than importing it here with them. After 9/11 the definitions changed and those nations and peoples who don't fight against the onslaught of tyranny, cannot be considered democracies, on the side of the free world. Rudy Guilliani is helping stem the corrupton there and that is a good thing. We should help them. We are now importing Liberty to the rest of the world rather than welcoming populations fleeing tyranny. They must use the American revolution as their guide and if there is a provision in the Mexico's constitution to overthrow their gov't if it becomes corrupt and tyrannical, they should follow it. And we should give whatever support we can like Haiti rather than propping up Mideast monarchies and Latin American puppet dictatorships. But that is going in another direction, when I'm really about trying to imporve my Mastercam skills.

 

Phil

[Jack Mitchell]

I’ll try to keep my question simple and to the point.

What is the motive for issuing a drivers license to an illegal immigrant?

 

Situation:

A licensed illegal runs over my spouse and kills her; is there some benefit for me in this matter? Or does it only benefit the illegal alien.

If the illegal could afford to pay car and liability insurance - would he?

 

Illegal immigrants in America (est 15 million) survive the mundane jobs and remain out of site when they have to (street gangs aside). Call me stupid but what makes you think they would run in droves to register illegally to gain a legal license.

I fail to understand the philosophy since this presents, to me, a double negative.

 

Could somebody please enlighten me or am I completely missing the point of this discussion?

 

P.S. Avatar time for Phil

 

Regards, Jack

[Scott Bond]

quote:

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I’ll try to keep my question simple and to the point.

What is the motive for issuing a drivers license to an illegal immigrant?

---

Hi Jack -this is not a good reason but it is

in IMHO the motive---

1]---- they want them.

2]---- many families here in SoCal. have both legal and illegal immigrantion status.

3]---- at the time of my original post,Democrat Grey Davis was our gov., and he was trying to rally support for his office by making false promises to the immigrant families.

 

P.S. Avatar time for Phil