Independent Contractor

[taperlength]

I just saw a job advertised for a contract programmer/machinist.  I've always been an employee, so have no experience with this.  I'd be interested in any input, positive or negative on the subject.

[crazy^millman]

What do you want to know? Need Liability Insurance. We have $5 Million worth. Will need Workman's Comp. Want to setup a corporate structure and make sure you have a good grasp on accounting, invoices and quoting. New customers for us are 30-50% up front depending on the project. Big projects are 50% upfront and make sure you have progress payments if going to be a big project. Make sure you have a travel set of machinist tools and I like to have access to a PCMM when I need it. I have had to go prove my parts were good before. Build up your libraries and key the mind set of everything you do must be able to be used by someone else. All the cutting corners and little tricks you can get away with doing your own work is gone. Label everything and have process for everything you do. Setup the correct terms and conditions when quoting. Know about tooling, fixturing, setup, programming, post processors, and inspecting the finished part. Become good friends with your Mastercam dealer, Machine Tool people, Tool Representatives and anyone else. 

 

Biggest thing is better have some thick and I mean thick skin. You will be cussed at and thrown under the bus any time someone gets a chance. You are disposable, expendable and only there to help get over the hump most times. Speak honestly, truthfully and expect to be called crazy or told that will not work. Be ready to make stupid programs with stupid tools and make programs for people you know is going to scrap the part. Those are the one you really need to watch if you tell them that method or approach is not the best way.  If they still want it done that way then need to make the decision do you want to feed your family and take the work if nothing else is coming in or do you pass on the aggravation. That in the long run will probably end up meaning you don't get fully paid for your hard work and effort. Check, Double check and triple check your work. You only normally get one chance at something and if you make a mistake might mean losing the customer. Be ready to lose customers and not get paid by some. Do your best to get everything in writing and don't go be someone's word unless you have been doing work for them for years. Even then be careful keep money aside for the slow times and be ready top not make money for a few months if need be. Everyone wants to hire you so they don't have to keep paying the contractor. Be polite and thank them, but don't be arrogant about it. Pride is the biggest thing I think any contractor should watch out for. Drives people crazy I am humble, but meekness is not weakness. If a contractor goes around like they cannot be touched and know everything then no one is going to want to help or work with you. I have no problem picking up a broom and sweeping up my mess, moping, cleaning a machine or making sure my work areas look good. I offer help and assistance and give respect. I may not always get respect, but I always try to give it.

 

Be ready to say no and don't over commit. If I make a promise on a delivery date I know in the back of my mind I can hit it. If I can't and they will not budge will say thanks, but no thanks. Have in your terms and conditions about REV CHANGES. We have a 4 months project and just got alerted about a REV CHANGE Friday. Be specific in your terms and conditions about the machine, the version and have an agreed upon setup sheet, process and method listed in the terms and conditions. Custom machine better make sure you can use the customer post. Customer files are just that and I always make sure the customers get their files and everything I needed to do the work. They paid us to do the work and I am there to help them so the file is there not mine. No we cannot time out the file or lock it down though I know some that zip them and put a password on them till paid. Risky yes, but part of doing business you have to have a certain level of trust. Don't get into the more work scam either. We can't pay you but got more work. Nope pay me for work done and I will do more work, until paid for work done we will not take on any new work from your company. You want to secure our services pay for them. You don't go order a hamburger and not pay for it and then think you can go back and get 20 more without paying for the 1st one.

 

Need to have your own seat or access to a seat of CAM Software. Be ready to not have the same CAM Software as some of your customers. Don't let the Mastercam haters scare you and even bother you. You were called in because either it was not getting done, could not be done or there is too much to be done.

 

Verification Software is great to have, but expensive for a contractor. I am using a customers seat of Vericut right now. I have access to NCSIMUL, but at someone point will need to invest money in that direction. When we do our price will go up to cover that overhead. Good computers are a must and backups and a fie structure system that does not use user accounts. I have for over 20 years done contract work in one way shape or fashion. I have files and documentation going back that far. My computer file structure is C:\Customer\COMPANY\PART NUMBER(Optional Description). Lately with a bug with stock models saved my bacon. I you use user accounts for your file structure an someone needs to unzip your .Z2G the file names were lost. Unless IT is willing to make a user account with your name on the customers computers don't and I mean don't put the file in \mcx\customers or any flavor of that. That really becomes C:\Users\<user>\Documents\my mcamx9\mcx\customers. Real easy t make a folder on the C drive and give it the correct permissions.

 

Need to setup a company email. Gmail is normally looked down upon by most bigger corporations. Setting up your Website and such is not that bad and then you have a FTP. I use Dropbox a lot also.

 

Be willing to push yourself and get out of your comfort zone. Have good contacts and good resources of people you can reach out to. I am blessed to know and have the group of people I call my friends. I am willing to admit when I am wrong when I am wrong, but I will not do it if I am write. If that means losing a customer so be it. I will not be anyone's fall guy or take the responsibility for someone else's mistakes or lack of communication. I have my emails divided by customer and then by people at that customer if I deal with a lot of people from a certain customer. I have copies of emails going back 15 years saved. My current .pst file is over 25 gigs and goes back 8 years.

 

We have done work for well over a 100 customers and quote maybe a 100 more. Expect to be that when all else fails and we have exhausted all possible means of not calling "That guy" to be called. It will be normally an emergency and people will be upset and you have to go put the fire out. Been lucky to be that guy many times and get it done. Experience is your friend trust it and if something don't seem right trust your gut. Not going to make everyone happy and not going to get everything you quote. Learn what si a good fair price and stick to your guns. We have saved companies millions and I love it when we get the can we get a discount we are ZZZZZZ and don't you want to help us out? Nope this is our price and if you want our help great if not go hire someone else. We can go do other work for people willing to pay our prices.

 

That covers about 1% of it so up to you to think about and see what the other 99% is about. I am still learning and trying to be better. I don't know everything and keep trying to get better. I am lucky to get to do what I get to do and work with who I get to work with.

[taperlength]

Thanks for your input Ron.  That's probably too much for me to deal with and still sleep at night.  I used to do temp work back in the 80's but that was all handled by an agency and they gave me a paycheck.  I suppose the only real contract work I've ever done was a paper route when I was a kid (that dates me).  The publisher sold me the newspapers and I sold them to the customers on my route. At the end of the month, I went door to door in the evening collecting their payments.

I've worked on some big jobs in the last 20 years and the most I've ever received for doing good work, is an email saying "thanks".   I resist the to urge to say, "No applause, just throw money"

I could use some more empowerment in my job, but I suppose I'll have to get a new one if I want it.

[Guest]

In the case of your posting, there is a possibility that the shop is basically looking for someone to come in, use their tools but in a contract situation....

 

That would mean you would be working in their shop, at their behest but without any protections and/or benefits....

 

You would need to adjust your hourly rate accordingly as you would then bear all of the costs......health insurance, liability insurance and all other costs for you to be a worker....

 

In all reality, you'd be better off in a case like that working through a temp agency....I suspect this company is trying to avoid those fees and low ball someone

 

As a contractor you are "in business" for yourself......if you're not prepared for that, not likely a good idea

[AMCNitro]

Remember that as a contractor you're also going to pay more in taxes.

[crazy^millman]

Remember that as a contractor you're also going to pay more in taxes.

Not really your amount of tax is based off what you make. You only make $40k a year then you pay that amount of tax. Why setting up the correct corporate structure and process is key. Many things you can't do as sole proprietor that the correct corporate structure allows you when it comes to things. We offer a service and under that service we pay our corporate taxes, fees and such all by the book. We have it setup up to minimize exposure and risk.

 

I don't want to discourage, but I want to encourage you to get into it. We maybe working on rockets parts one week or medical stuff to faucets the week after. We get to be in many different places and do some very interesting work. It grows our experience and allows us to be the answer people. Again I don't have all the answers, but you have to do what is best for you in your situation.

 

John is correct and really comes down to you never know until you try.

[themachinist]

Not really your amount of tax is based off what you make. You only make $40k a year then you pay that amount of tax. Why setting up the correct corporate structure and process is key. Many things you can't do as sole proprietor that the correct corporate structure allows you when it comes to things. We offer a service and under that service we pay our corporate taxes, fees and such all by the book. We have it setup up to minimize exposure and risk.

 

I don't want to discourage, but I want to encourage you to get into it. We maybe working on rockets parts one week or medical stuff to faucets the week after. We get to be in some many different places and do some very interesting work. It grows our experience and allows us to be the answer people. Again I don't have all the answers, but you have to do what is best for you in your situation.

 

John is correct and really comes down to you never know until you try.

 

+1 for incorporation. Pay someone really good to help you with your information processes early on as IT is one of the most significant labor multipliers in any business these days. For important proprietary information, like your programs, you need to use some kind of redundant storage with off-site backup. 

 

By the way, you can purchase a domain and use gmail as the service provider. That is how I use my email: [email protected]

[gcode]

^{You also need to be in a financial position where you can get by without a regular paycheck}

^{Many customers pay slowly and some will try to not pay you at all.}

[?Mark]

I've always done it, but on a very small scale (read: local).

I'm seriously considering going bigger

[themachinist]

^{You also need to be in a financial position where you can get by without a regular paycheck}

^{Many customers pay slowly and some will try to not pay you at all.}

 

This is a good one. Be very clear about your payment terms and realize that you do not have to go net 30 (may want to go 10 or 15 for skilled labor), and that you may be able to xxxx interest or a penalty fee on overdue items. I personally think it's important to understand the entire debt management process from how to properly invoice to what steps you need to take when you aren't getting paid. 

[gcode]

This is a good one. Be very clear about your payment terms and realize that you do not have to go net 30 (may want to go 10 or 15 for skilled labor), and that you may be able to xxxx interest or a penalty fee on overdue items. I personally think it's important to understand the entire debt management process from how to properly invoice to what steps you need to take when you aren't getting paid. 

that's all well and good but many shops will not pay till a first article is achieved.

That may be a week or so for a simple project to 12 to 18 months for a big one

In cases like that you need to negotiate progress payments made at defined steps

before you even start

That still does not protect you from the crooks

Many shops will load you up, then forget your phone number once you're done

or find fault with your work and refuse to pay.

Its wise to take baby steps with new customers till you find out if they are honest or not

Word of mouth can be useful to ferret out the unethical shops as well.

If they are crooks, it's likely they've burned some other contractor in the past

[gcode]

another thing you have to do is make sure your potential customer is competent

The best program in the world is useless if it's going to be proved out by Crashmaster Bill

on his wore out Haas.  He's going to fail.. then blame your program and refuse to pay you

[crazy^millman]

another thing you have to do is make sure your potential customer is competent

The best program in the world is useless if it's going to be proved out by Crashmaster Bill

on his wore out Haas.  He's going to fail.. then blame your program and refuse to pay you

 

Yes no matter how good the program, process and method you come up with Crashmaster whoever is determined to make it bad they can make it bad. Best process I have seen work is going on site and getting around the Crashmaster that wants it to fail and not work looking for everything they can to make you look bad and themselves look good. Once Crashmaster sees you might not be stupid and know your way around the machine they either get on board or get out of the way. I really like it when they get on board because they lean something and you can learn something from them. The ones that get out of the way normally show themselves to the door sooner or later.

[?Mark]

"Yes no matter how good the program, process and method you come up with Crashmaster whoever is determined to make it bad they can make it bad"

 

Absolutely correct Ron

 

A good machinist can make the worst programmer look great, but by the same token the crappy machinist can make the best programmer look really bad.

[Guest]

another thing you have to do is make sure your potential customer is competent

The best program in the world is useless if it's going to be proved out by Crashmaster Bill

on his wore out Haas.  He's going to fail.. then blame your program and refuse to pay you

 

I went through this with one customer recently...

 

A competent person but no manufacturing experience.....bought a machine, had someone come in and show him how to run it....

 

So, so many of the "problems" he thought he was having were all him shooting himself in the foot......

 

I go through this occasionally with another customer.....he'll say things aren't on center on a rotary....

 

I'll show him the lines of code, the Y+ & Y- are equal or centerline stuff is at 0

They have to figure out what is wrong in their setup

[guitar]

Here is the best thing. Wen the economy slows, so does the payment. Places go from 30 days pay to 60 to 90 to 120. Then, you are lucky to get paid at all.

[gcode]

 I once had a new customer give me  a package of 6 parts, the first of which was very very hot.

I got it done for him but he seemed to have lost interest in the remaining 5 parts.

Turns out he didn't even need the 5 parts.

They were just bait to get the first hot part rushed through.

Fortunately I figured this out before I put a bunch of work into his bait parts.

It can be a real dog eat dog world if you're not careful

Its best to only do work for people your know or referrals from people you trust

[crazy^millman]

 I once had a new customer give me  a package of 6 parts, the first of which was very very hot.

I got it done for him but he seemed to have lost interest in the remaining 5 parts.

Turns out he didn't even need the 5 parts.

They were just bait to get the first hot part rushed through.

Fortunately I figured this out before I put a bunch of work into his bait parts.

It can be a real dog eat dog world if you're not careful

Its best to only do work for people your know or referrals from people you trust

 

Yes the old bait and switch. I had one customer not pay for 4 months, then comeback and tell me none of the programs were any good had to be reprogrammed. They would pay me 25% of the balance take it or leave it. I asked what we wrong with them and they said I gave to much information and made the program to big to fit in their machine. Having been an employee of the company and having had programmed that exact machine while I worked there I knew it was a lie. What do you do? Lesson learned and no matter never doing work for that company and warn everyone about them.

[Müřlıń®]

I got really lucky and found a company to get work from that I trust implicitly.

 

Couldn't ask for anything more....when you find a customer like that, make them your #1 priority and remember one in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

[gcode]

I got really lucky and found a company to get work from that I trust implicitly.

 

Couldn't ask for anything more....when you find a customer like that, make them your #1 priority and remember one in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Most of my regular customers, have retired, died or sold out to bigger customers who are not interested in my services.

These days, most of my contract work is handling overflow from my day job.

That works very well, cause I know exactly what is required, what equipment and tooling is available

and I'm sure to get paid

[Mick]

Most of my regular customers, have retired, died or sold out to bigger customers who are not interested in my services.

These days, most of my contract work is handling overflow from my day job.

That works very well, cause I know exactly what is required, what equipment and tooling is available

and I'm sure to get paid

 

I'm in the exact same position. To be honest, for the most part, I find contract programming not worth it. I have a few loyal customers, and I've recently done some work for a couple of new customers who were really good to work with. The tough thing is taking the time to build up a good working relationship, with mutual trust in one another. Actually, it isn't so much tough, but just a little time consuming, But, that effort needs to be put in right at the start.

 

Like gcode, a lot of my contract work is overflow from my day job. And I also do some training/configuration work for various software. The variation in work is enjoyable. If I was toolpathing all the time, I think I would get tired of it.

 

And down here, we have rogue customers as well. Plenty of the bait and switch, strung out payment, and big promises. If all the work I was told I was going to get actually happened, I would have been retired a while ago

[gcode]

I'm in the exact same position. To be honest, for the most part, I find contract programming not worth it. I have a few loyal customers, and I've recently done some work for a couple of new customers who were really good to work with. The tough thing is taking the time to build up a good working relationship, with mutual trust in one another. Actually, it isn't so much tough, but just a little time consuming, But, that effort needs to be put in right at the start.

 

Like gcode, a lot of my contract work is overflow from my day job. And I also do some training/configuration work for various software. The variation in work is enjoyable. If I was toolpathing all the time, I think I would get tired of it.

 

And down here, we have rogue customers as well. Plenty of the bait and switch, strung out payment, and big promises. If all the work I was told I was going to get actually happened, I would have been retired a while ago

or dead from overwork

[Mick]

or dead from overwork

 

Yeah, good point. Or bored