Mitsui Seiki 5Axis-Vertex 55XII

[MSL]

 Hi,

 We are looking to buy three 5 Axis machines. We decided to order two Matsuura MX-520. The third machine might be a Mitsui Seiki Vertex 55XII. Can anyone give some feedback about this machine please?

Thank you.    

[Colin Gilchrist]

We have a Mitsui Seiki 5X machine. I'm not sure if it is the 55 II, but it is one of our most accurate machines. Is there anything specific you want to know?

My boss mentioned it was one of his best machine buying experiences. They had the machine installed within 60 days of purchase (I think we bought it used, but not 100% sure), and it has ran flawlessly since the install. (I think we got it last year.)

[gcode]

I used to program a Mitsui Seiki and it was deadly accurate

There are a lot of people here with Matsura experience and I'm sure some of them will chime in shortly

[MSL]

Hi Colin,

 Thank you for your input. I am little nerves about buying this machine. We have a 3axis Mitsui Seiki VL30. I can not get a good finish on vertical walls on my parts. We went to a different company and did a test cut , we got the same results. Not really happy with their customer service either ( to be fair I'm located in southern California not sure about your customer service).

 

[Watcher]

Out of curiosity:

In Japan, brands ending up with "Seiki" are usually high accuracy equipment. 

The machine builder has to fill a little extra paperwork to get the export license, since this equipment is usually able to reach the accuracy level required to manufacture atomic weapons and military systems. 

When shipped to certain countries, even ones that are not embargoed, some machines are escorted by employees of U.S. government in order to make sure they will be used and deployed within the purpose and location the buyer alleged they would. 

[Leon82]

We have 3 520s and just bought another along with a 330. So I'm guessing the boss likes them

They come with camplete, so programming them is pretty easy.

They will drift from thermal expansion, but I'm sure most machines do.

But I am able to hold .02mm true position on a part where datum a b c are machined at a0c0 and the holes machined at a-90 c225. But I have to indicate each part at an m00 and I shift it using the g54.4 active work piece function.

[Colin Gilchrist]

I'll ask some questions on Monday Ara. If service has been an issue, then I'd be worried as well. Service is everything with a machine as expensive as these are. Have you ball-bar tested the 3X machine? Checked the Perpendicularity of the spindle to the table? Have you swept the table with an indicator to check that it is perpendicular to the spindle taper?

To do those tests "right" you need accurate gages. I'd recommend getting a Tool Holder Test Bar (Big Kaiser, Techniks, and Command have them), which is basically just the tool holder taper interface, with a precision cylinder attached. You load it like a regular tool in the spindle, and mount your indicator vertically on a test stand facing the operator. Sweep the X axis on the indicator tip to find the high point, then tram the Z axis up and down. Then, re-mount the indicator on the right (or left) side, sweep the Y axis, and repeat the procedure. That will show you tilt about Y and about X for the Z axis.

You can then mount an indicator in a drill chuck or other attachment, and sweep the indicator tip over the machine table.

A 3rd test I would do is to mount the test bar in the spindle, put the spindle in neutral, and check the run out at the base, and at the tip of the tool. It is possible that the Z axis motion is "square" to the table, but the taper cone of the tool interface is crooked, which causes your tool to spin in a slight "cone" shape. The path of your endmill flutes end up creating a frustum that is very small, but noticeable when checking the parts. This effect is magnified at higher spindle speeds.

What kind of holders are you using with your machine? Do you have something good like heat-shrink or hydraulic clamping? (I would think so where you work...)

[: Chip :]

"Seiki" is like "Smith". Machines from all over are bearing the "Smith" name. Akira "Smith" I think Korean. 

The innovators who SORTA set the bar (I think) is Mori "Smith".

now hyphenated:

Mori-"Smith"-DMU?

:CHIP:

[mkd]

On 07/28/2017 at 3:34 PM, MSL said:

 have a 3axis Mitsui Seiki VL30. I can not get a good finish on vertical walls on my parts. We went to a different company and did a test cut , we got the same results. Not really happy with their customer service eithr

 

Not sure but, what you are saying is the bad finish was replicated on another company's machine? If so it sounds project or tool application related.

 If it was me, I'd look up market with matsuura first, just to simplify service and support. The MX series is their entry level mills and they have know Y axis growth issue due to how the rotary is mounted to the column. (I'm just parroting what I've read elsewhere, so grain of salt)

[MSL]

Hi,

Thank you guys for the reply. We are buying two Matsuuras, I know for sure we will have good customer service here.

Colin: Mitsui Seiki and Fanuc guys came and checked the machine. They could not solve the problem. Still getting chatter marks on the walls ( cost 15K). We went to a different company that they have the same machine. We ran our program on their machine and got the same chatter marks. They did not know about this because it is a mold making shop and they had draft angle on their parts.

They said it is the magnetic drives causing this. I guess we are stuck with the machine. That's why I do not like to get another Mitsui.

[Newbeeee™]

Ref the chatter - feeding on 1x axis only or both at the same time?

Light DOC or long tool? - I'm guessing it's a sidewall and chatter irrespective of the LOC if it is a drive issue?

Running G05 or standard code?

New machine or old machine?

Linear rail or Box way?

[nickbe10]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 4:29 PM, Watcher said:

In Japan, brands ending up with "Seiki" are usually high accuracy equipment

 

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 3:50 PM, : Chip : said:

"Seiki" is like "Smith". Machines from all over are bearing the "Smith" name. Akira "Smith" I think Korean

Seiki = Precision (English - Japanese), just because the name includes seiki does not necessarily make it a precision machine....it is marketing....

[Colin Gilchrist]

We have a HU63-5X, with a dual-pallet switcher. So far, we have had the machine about 9 months, and have had zero service calls. It just runs like Swiss watch (or Japanese watch). We currently don't have any complaints to report.

I do find it strange that you're getting marks in the surface, and they aren't able to fix it for you. I'd be super pissed about that if it was their fault, and they aren't willing or able to address the issue.

[Leon82]

I take it you've tried a shrink holder for finish testing?

[MSL]

This machine is ten years old with very short machining hours on the machine. We have tried all possible way of machining, different holder, four different programming software, probably with ten different people. It's definitely a machine issue.

[Newbeeee™]

4 hours ago, MSL said:

This machine is ten years old with very short machining hours on the machine. We have tried all possible way of machining, different holder, four different programming software, probably with ten different people. It's definitely a machine issue.

I'm not doubting it's the machine. But trying to narrow down what it maybe.

If it is a bad finish in a straight line movement (say X) then it could be stickslip (if boxway) or lube issue (if linear) or ballscrew.

If it is the same in Y then it could be any (but I'd be thinking stickslip if low hours).

Remove the covers off the machine and with no power to the machine, rotate the ballscrew by hand forwards and back and see what it feels like. It should obviously be smooth. Also have a look at the way lube pipes and see if oil is getting where it should.

If it's okay in straight one axis move but not okay with interpolation, it could be a motor drive fighting against the other.

It could be a lot of things, but more info may help us help you.

[GPC_CNC]

Our MAM72-35 had an issue where it would make "chatter" marks when running certain directions, but usually when doing the odd radii or off perpendicular cut. Turned out, one of the ball screws was a little loose and the scale feedback a was causing oscillation while it was self correcting along the cut. Changed the ball screw and it went away. Weird that it would happen on two different machines though.

Greg

[: Chip :]

OK

 

GOTTA ADMIT. :CHIP: is W/O machine, talking from "HEARSAY".

 

:POPCORN:

 

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