Going with DP Technology's Esprit Software for Multi-Tasking

[DrewG]

Well after spending the last few months trying to program our new Nakamura Super NTJ multi-tasking mill/turn machine and being fully frustrated, we have finally chosen DP's Technology's Esprit Software. We were counting on using M/C's "MATTS" software until they made the company decision to "drop the program" late last year. Since the machine hit our floor in January, we have had four different CAM companies in to try and get this machine to run using their software. Every one of them stated "we can run that machine", and than after spending anywhere from 1-3 weeks on our floor, they all came up empty. It has been so damn frustrating!!! With over 100 different parts planned for this machine, we had to find a CAM system that would be able to run this machine without "pasting and editing" on the control. The CAM system also needed to support "pinch turning", syncronization, and verification.

The dealer spent 6 weeks programming on the control just to get one single part running, and even then the program wasted alot of time, and was very inefficient. This machine has unbelievable capabilities, but if it takes weeks to get a program running, what good is it?

It finally got to the point that I stopped making payments on the machine and told the dealer to "come pick it up".

I decided to call Esprit to see if they might have anything to offer for this machine(they stated back in late November they did not have a post) and was surprised to find out they were 98% done with a post. Evidently a shop in AZ purchased two of these machine's and Esprit was writing a post for them. I had them send down a few files to test, and to everyone's amazement, everything worked perfectly. A consultant from Esprit came down this week to show us their software, and to run one of our programs on our machine. It worked. So we just purchased their software and have the training scheduled in-house over the next two weeks.

I'm not slamming M/C or stating that I like Esprit better(I can't make that comparison without having worked on Esprit). I just wanted to let everyone know that software to run these Mill/Turn machines is extremely limited, and very much behind the capabilities of these machines. It seems that the CAM companies as well as the manufacturer's of these machine are having a hell of a time writing software to run these machines to their fullest. In fact Mori Seiki(who owns their own software company in California) just made the decision to endorse Esprit to run their new MT machines. The manufacturer's are realizing that they aren't going to be able to sell their machines if there is no way to program them.

It also appears that their aren't too many programmers out there who have experience programming these machine. I had two job positions listed on M/C's website for several months--the first for horizontal machining center programmers, and the second for the multitasking machine. I had over 100 responses. Only one was for the multitasking position.

 

[ 04-17-2004, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: DrewG ]

[crazy^millman]

Well glad you finnaly came to a resloution to your problem. It is amazing after all this time you did not pull your hair completely out of your head. I am still the Crazy one here but you can send the machine my way and be more than glad to do the parts you need for you and bet it would not take me 6 weeks to write one program. Sorry if that come across the wrong way but multiaxis twin spindle machine with all the bells and whistles your has just makes my mouth water. 2 weeks is good amount training just wondering how much you had to drop for that software and hope it is fully functional as you need and gets the job you need done which is really the most important thing in this day and time.

 

Good luck hope we still see you around.

 

[ 04-17-2004, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Millman^Crazy ]

[DrewG]

Millman, you can come on up and play over the holidays. I hope that will be the only time in the future that this machine won't be running(LOL). This last four month's have been the most stressful of my life-bar none. The worst part about the whole experience was the constant "ups and downs" as every new CAM rep. came to the shop. They would all state "I'll get this thing making parts within a couple of days". I would get so stoked thinking we were finally on to something, and than within a few days or weeks, it would be the same old story--problem after problem. The Rep's would all call it quits, and leave with their head hanging down, and my wallet considerably lighter. I even had several very good 8 axis Mori programmers come in and give it a try, only to give up after a few days, realizing it was going to take a very long time to get anything running without a good post.

I will give you an update in a couple of weeks to let you know if Esprit CAN run this machine. So far, so good, they haven't been stumped yet. We'll see.

[steve f]

...anybody hear why CNC Software dropped the MATTS program. It's too bad if true because they would've had a real edge on the market.

 

steve

[Allan Brown]

From my understanding, it's not dropped, just delayed.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

With X coming out it made more since to write matts for X than to write it for 9 then rewrite for X. I cant wait for it to come out, it will make my life alot easier.

[Simtech]

MATSS envolved a lot of development using the new Machine and Control definition that we will see in Mastercam X. I think, like Dave was saying, that it was just not feasible getting MATSS to run inside V9 when all the foundation was being built in the X project.

 

Hopefully, we can expect a release of MATSS not so far after ther release of X and I do expect it to come out in 2004.

 

We have a few customers that are waiting for the MATSS to come out and when this happens, we will be head over heels in post issues.

 

I for one have a customer with this exact same type of machine and discussed with them the implementation of Mastercam over the year. They have many different types of machines, controls and configurations that we decided to implement in stages: Milling basic, turning basic, milling multi-axis, turning multi-axis (Integrex) and finally turning synchro.

 

We will probably reach the turning synchro portion at the same time it will be release by Mastercam - we are pretty much counting on it.

 

Keep us informed on the progress you make with this new machine and the programming software!

 

Luc

[Surface]

It's horible to be on the bleeding edge of technology. I've been there and didn't like it. As a MasterCam user, I owe Drew as much support as I can.

Multi-axis/multi-task machines will someday become commonplace and while there will be a learning curve, when it knocks on my door, it will be a lot easier due in part to the people who have the desire to push modern technology to its limits.

Thanks Drew.

[Jack Mitchell]

+1 to Surface and way to go with it Drew.

 

and best of luck to you.

 

Regards, Jack

[gcode]

Pardon my ignorance...

 

What is MATTS???

[Jack Mitchell]

Note: An additional mention might be suggested here.

 

Luc (Simtech) hails from Quebec, Canada. - Mazak is a very popular machine tool for industry and educational facilities in this province. This may or may not be relevant to five axis machine tools or the Integrex in particular.

 

I just though to mention this.

 

Regards, Jack

[Ken Erman from CNC Software Inc.]

Luc and Jimmy are correct. The MATSS project is being worked on as part of the X development. I won't go into any further details at this point. It has been designed as a very robust package that will answer the pent up demand for software to run these machines.

 

We already have a very good solution in V-9 for Mazak Integrex.

[Harryman]

quote:

---

We already have a very good solution in V-9 for Mazak Integrex.

---

That's a fact.

[Keith Graydon]

quote:

---

Hopefully, we can expect a release of MATSS not so far after ther release of X

---

This wont help Drew and his Staff, TODAY. It might be the solution a year from now but they need to ship parts.

 

I am suprised that the machine distibutor or Nakamura didnt provide a full turnkey operation.

[mayday]

quote:

---

Pardon my ignorance...

 

What is MATTS???

---

bump

[iowajim62]

Hi all,

This might help everybody understand how far MC is looking forward.

 

MATSS = Multi Axis Turret Spindle Synchronization

 

http://www.manufacturingcenter.com/tooling...303/0303cam.asp

 

Does that help Gcode ?

[gcode]

Very cool stuff

 

Thanks

[crazy^millman]

That should be right up your alley Gcode. I can see that being a very cool tool for those machines. I would like to see what they have instore for 5 axis milling with X coming out.

[gcode]

quote:

---

I would like to see what they have in store for 5 axis milling with X coming out.

---

So would I, but I already got my butt in trouble

for talking too much so from now on its

 

gcode teh I know nothing ( about X)

[crazy^millman]

LOL well I put my hat in the ring as see if they might let me be privagle enough to eb a Beta so here a hoping they do. Mick, Roger, PDG could you put in a good word for me.

[Gail Plush / Amcast Automotive]

I work for a wheel plant, and that is all we do! Four axis lathe programming. I was really excited to see the software "run" at IMTS.. I am just wondering how much more it will be! Unfortunately, spending money at my company is only for very important stuff, like office chairs and redundant papaerwork...

 

Gail

[DrewG]

When I purchased my M/C software back in February /03, I was told by my dealer the MATTS software would be available by the beginning of '04, and if I purchased it before it was released, it would cost approx. $5000.00 vs. $7500.00 after its release. I knew I would be purchasing a multi-tasking machine by years end, and a screw machine shortly after, so I was counting on M/C having this software available. When I was at Eastec I heard all the "raves" concerning the MATTS software. In fact, the M/C newsletter was touting their progress on the MATTS program, and all the work they were doing with two shops developing this software-one in CT, and the other in MA. I placed my order for this Nakamura the third week of June '03.

I must say I was highly disappointed when in late '03 M/C announced they "had made a company decision to drop the MATTS program, or put it on hold". I called and voiced my disappointment with M/C and was told that "M/C decided to concentrate all their efforts into version X, and that MATTS would have been released in the older version of software, and than would've had to been redone in the Window's based version X. The sceduled release for version X was fall '04, and that MATTS would not be available until AT LEAST a year later minimum." I than followed up with how misleading it appeared the entire MATTS program was publicised, and was than told "that's the software business". Needless to say, I was very disappointed.

As you can imangine, the first question everyone always ask's me is: "Why did you buy a machine without software to program it?" My response is "I was counting on MATTS".

 

[ 04-19-2004, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: DrewG ]

[cherokeechief79]

dont expect any more help from us here!!!!!!!

 

OUT!!!!!

 

 

JUS KIDDIN BOSS

[DrewG]

Oh your real funny!!! Mr. "get me some software to run this Damn machine". (LOL)

[SLJ]

Esprit must of come a long way in the last two years. The shop I was at then had Esprit and two Integrex along with about 20 other mazaks. The reseller had promised us esprit would run the integrexes before we bought it. After over a year of trying post after post he sent us, we found out from esprit that they had nuthin' for the integrex. The dealer was trying to write a post by himself to get around the lack of support from the software. Got an e-mail from one of my buddies there a while back that esprit still had nothing for them and they were dropping the software!