How do you name your tools in a programmer/operator setting

[ThisGuy]

Hi people,

So far I've always been both programmer and operator. When I comes to tool names in such a setting it's easy, you just name it in a way that works for you and that's it. 

But now I'm setting Mastercam at a company where there's a group of programmers behind their PC's and the operators behind the machines. There are 8 machines at this moment but the goal is to get this up to 12 at least. 

One of the biggest struggles turns out to be how to name the tools.. it needs enough info so the operators can see what is what, it need some info about the holder since it's impracticable (to say the least) to dig through a 180+ capacity tool magazine searching for the right holder for a new assembly.

There are some identical tool except for Weldon holder or not... 

And to top that off, most of the less modern machines allow only a 16 character name. 

How do other people do this!?

[JParis]

This is how I present the info...

 

and every operation gets a comment, some needing to be more in-depth than others

 

and my post puts this into the header

Quote

(T11010500 / 1/2 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.703)
     (DESTINY / V33220S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.700 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T15013893 / 3/8 X .093R BULLNOSE / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.113)
     (DESTINY / V32416SR093S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.100 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11010375 / 3/8 3FL 1.50 LOC ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.150)
     (DESTINY / V32424S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.550 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T34010500 / 1/2 3FL X 2.125 REACH / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.950)
     (DESTINY / V3321017S / MIN TOOL EXT -2.200 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11010625 / 5/8 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.950)
     (DESTINY / V34032S / MIN TOOL EXT -2.100 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T59010193 / .1929 CARBIDE DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.023)
     (KENNAMETAL / 4150544 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.200 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T59010177 / .1772 CARBIDE DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.915)
     (KENNAMETAL / 4151126 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.300 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11010188 / 3/16 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.028)
     (DESTINY / V31206S / MIN TOOL EXT -.950 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11010250 / 1/4 ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.037)
     (DESTINY / V31608S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.000 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T15012560 / 1/4 X .06R BULLNOSE / MIN Z DEPTH: -.890)
     (DESTINY / V31612R060S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.100 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11020188 / 3/16 3FL F-ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.758)
     (DESTINY / V31209S / MIN TOOL EXT -.700 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11030188 / 3/16 X 1.00 LOC ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.955)
     (DESTINY / V31216S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.100 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11020250 / 1/4 X .75 LOC 3FL ENDMILL  / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.085)
     (DESTINY / V31612S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.150 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T15010015 / .093 X .015R 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.292)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 867293 / MIN TOOL EXT -.500 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T15011930 / 3/16 X .03R BULLNOSE / MIN Z DEPTH: -.640)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 46730 / MIN TOOL EXT -.750 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11010125 / 1/8 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.955)
     (DESTINY / V30808S / MIN TOOL EXT -.550 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T15011220 / 1/8 X .02R BULLNOSE / MIN Z DEPTH: -.182)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 833420 / MIN TOOL EXT -.620 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T42010093 / .093 X .375 3FL LR ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.465)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 945593 / MIN TOOL EXT -.550 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T39010039 / .039 X .117 LR ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.443)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 47839 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T11010062 / 1/16 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.290)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 823062 / MIN TOOL EXT -.550 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T42010062 / 1/16 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.370)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 945562 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T34010047 / .047 LR ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.395)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 945547 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T15016260 / 5/8 X .06R LF BULLNOSE / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.878)
     (DESTINY / V34026R060S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.850 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13010188 / 3/16 BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.930)
     (DESTINY / BV21206S / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13010125 / 1/8 BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.950)
     (DESTINY / BV20805S / MIN TOOL EXT -1.000 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13020093 / .093 3FL X .75 REACH BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.896)
     (TOOL MANUFACTURER / 34293 / MIN TOOL EXT -.850 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13010062 / .062 LR BALL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.765)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 33462 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13010047 / .047 X . 141 REACH BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.215)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 47947 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13020047 / .047 3FL BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.309)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 868247 / MIN TOOL EXT -.750 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13010031 / .031 3FL BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.325)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 966031 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T32011890 / 3/16 X 90 DEG DRILL/MILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.695)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 15312-2 / MIN TOOL EXT -.700 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T15019430 / 3/32 X .03R 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.240)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 958893 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T33010590 / .500 X 90 DA CUTTER / MIN Z DEPTH: -.245)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 838832 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.250 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T22013835 / .375 X .035 KS CUTTER / MIN Z DEPTH: -.156)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 22512 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.100 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T67010120 / NO. 31 JOBBER DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.200)
     (PRECISION TWIST DRILL / 018131 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T39010118 / 3MM LR ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.205)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 982205 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.200 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T32010290 / 1/4 X 90 DEGREE MILL/DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.665)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 15316-2 / MIN TOOL EXT -.800 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T61010125 / 1/8 X 90 DEG SPOT DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.891)
     (FULLERTON / 15450 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.000 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T47010290 / .290 X 32 PITCH THREADMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.530)
     (SCIENTIFIC / TM290-32H / MIN TOOL EXT -.900 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T22013762 / .312 X .062 KEYSEAT / MIN Z DEPTH: -1.052)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 69730 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.200 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T22011847 / 3/16 X .047 X .562 KEYSEAT / MIN Z DEPTH: -.495)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 43747 / MIN TOOL EXT -.850 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T61010093 / .093 X 90 DEG SPOT DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.290)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 11493 / MIN TOOL EXT -.750 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T67010078 / 5/64 JOBBER DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.580)
     (PRECISION TWIST DRILL / 46480754 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.200 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T67010055 / NO. 54 JOBBER DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.711)
     (PRECISION TWIST DRILL / 46480746 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.000 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T78010047 / 3/64 FLAT BOTTOM DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.263)
     (HARVEY TOOL / FBD0468-C3 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T67010094 / 3/32 JOBBER DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.210)
     (PRECISION TWIST DRILL / 46480761 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.625 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T67010064 / NO. 52 JOBBER DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.445)
     (PRECISION TWIST DRILL / 018152 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.150 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T67010081 / .081 JOBBER DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.414)
     (PRECISION TWIST DRILL / 018146 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.250 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T78010078 / .0781 FLAT BOTTOM DRILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.975)
     (HARVEY TOOL / FBD0781-C3 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.000 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T73010080 / 0-80 CUTTING TAP RH / MIN Z DEPTH: -.238)
     (EMUGE / BU513500.5033 / MIN TOOL EXT -.850 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T71010080 / 0-80 ROLLTAP BH5 / MIN Z DEPTH: -.665)
     (BALAX / 10005-000 / MIN TOOL EXT -.850 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T71010256 / 2-56 ROLLTAP BH5 - RH / MIN Z DEPTH: -.945)
     (BALAX / 10285-010 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.000 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T73012545 / M2.5 X .45 CUTTING TAP  / MIN Z DEPTH: -.390)
     (REGAL CUTTING TOOLS / 030233TC / MIN TOOL EXT -.850 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13010093 / .093 2FL BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.359)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 24593 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T42010031 / .031 3FL ENDMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.233)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 33231 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T13010039 / 1MM 2FL BALLMILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.090)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 24539 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T22010062 / .375 X .031R FR KEYSEAT / MIN Z DEPTH: -.765)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 68431 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.250 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T23010125 / 1/8 X 90 DEG CMFR MILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.925)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 18745 / MIN TOOL EXT -.950 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T23010062 / .062 X 90 DEG CMFR MILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.663)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 853945 / MIN TOOL EXT -.750 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T48011582 / 5/32 X 82 DEG DRILL/MILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.163)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 26510 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T48019482 / .093 X 82 DEG DRILL/MILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.305)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 949406 / MIN TOOL EXT -.750 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T33010090 / .125 X 90 DA CUTTER / MIN Z DEPTH: -.121)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 19201 / MIN TOOL EXT -.650 / CRIB LOCATION)

(T17010500 / .500 DOVETAIL MILL / MIN Z DEPTH: -.080)
     (HARVEY TOOL / 16832 / MIN TOOL EXT -1.000 / CRIB LOCATION)

 

 

[cncappsjames]

Basically very similar to JP's...

T# .5 x 1.5 LOC x .03R - NECKED TO 2.0 - 2.1 EXT - 90mm GL Slim Nose SF Holder - 5.64 GL Min.

Sometimes I'll use fractions to describe it. Just depends. 

GL = Gage Length

SF = Shrink Fit

This pretty much tells the setup guy everything he/she needs to construct the correct tool without being overly detailed IMHO. Some tools require less detail than others, but this is the basic layout for me.

HTH

[john316]

I set up my Mastercam tool descriptions with the text and set up my post to output the description in the program header and then again at the toolchange.

I add any special holder descriptions where needed.

 

(**************TOOL LIST************)
(T1=1" ROUGHING E.M., 2" FLUTE LENGTH, 2" REACH, .06 RADIUS) 
(T2=2" ROUGHING E.M., 4" FLUTE LENGTH, 4.5" REACH, .06 RADIUS) 
(T3=5/8" CARBIDE ROUGHING E.M., 1" FLUTE LENGTH, 1.5" REACH, .25 RADIUS) 
(T4=1" CARBIDE FINISH E.M., 2" FLUTE LENGTH, 2" REACH, .06 RADIUS) 
(T5=2" FINISH E.M., 4" FLUTE LENGTH, 4.5" REACH, .06 RADIUS) 
(T6=5/8" CARBIDE FINISH E.M., 1" FLUTE LENGTH, 1.5" REACH, .25 RADIUS) 
(T7=1/2" CARBIDE BALL E.M., 1" FLUTE LENGTH, 2.5" REACH) 
(T8=1" ROUGHING E.M., 1.5" FLUTE LENGTH, 4.5" REACH, .31 RADIUS) 
(T10=3/4" ROUGHING E.M., 1.5" FLUTE LENGTH, 4.5" REACH, .19 RADIUS)
(T11=1" CARBIDE FINISH E.M., 4" FLUTE LENGTH, 4.5" REACH, .31 RADIUS)
(T13=3/4" CARBIDE FINISH E.M., 1.5" FLUTE LENGTH, 4.5" REACH, .19 RADIUS)
(T14=3/8" CARBIDE BALL E.M., 3/4" FLUTE LENGTH, 1.5" REACH)
(T15=1-1/4" FINISH E.M., 4" FLUTE LENGTH, 4" REACH, NO RADIUS) 
(T16=BORING HEAD SET TO 1.8765 DIA., 4" LONG)
(T17=1/2" DIA. SPOTDRILL, 1" LONG, 90 DEG TIP, IN A .875 DIA. X 4" LONG HOLDER)
(T18=LETTER "N" [.302 DIA.] DRILL, 1" LONG, IN A .875 DIA. X 4" LONG HOLDER) 
(T19=.310 DIA. BORING E.M., 1" LONG, IN A .875 DIA. X 4" LONG HOLDER)
(T20=.315 DIA. REAMER, 2" LONG, IN A .875 DIA. X 3" LONG HOLDER) 
(T21=#2 [.221 DIA.] DRILL, .75 LONG, IN A 1" DIA. X 4" LONG HOLDER)
(T22=.232 DIA. BORING E.M., .75" LONG, IN A 1" DIA. X 4" LONG HOLDER)
(T23=.237 DIA. REAMER, 1.5" LONG , IN A 1" DIA. X 3" LONG HOLDER)
(T24=9/32 [.281 DIA.] DRILL, .75 LONG, IN A 1" DIA. X 4" LONG HOLDER)
(T25=.293 DIA. BORING E.M., .75" LONG, IN A 1" DIA. X 4" LONG HOLDER)
(T26=.298 DIA. REAMER, 1.5" LONG , IN A 1" DIA. X 3" LONG HOLDER)
 

 

N4300
T43M6
(T43=3/4" ROUGHING E.M., 1.5" FLUTE LENGTH, 2" REACH, .06 RADIUS )
G0G17G40G80G90G94G98
(ROUGH THE CENTER +.06)
 

[Bob W.]

We actually send very little information to the operators.  No comments, no tool information.  Most things are checked by the machine...  We have multiple tool databases (Mastercam, Vericut, etc...) but our Vericut database is king, meaning if there is ever a question about a tool's geometry Vericut is the record of reference.  This is because we have a policy of 100% of our programs passing Vericut before going to the machines so if a tool is constructed to the Vericut spec it is safe to run.  We have a software application in our tool crib where the tech enters the tool number and it pulls the tool information from Vericut and displays it on the computer.  This includes cutter information, holder information, stickout, and min OAL plus a graphic of what it looks like.  The tools are stored in a locked cabinet (Western Tool's FTS system, it is a 10!).  When the tool manager needs a cutter he types in the tool number and it tells him the location of the tool by cabinet, drawer, row, and column.  We set our tools using a Speroni presetter and the values are entered into our cell controller which will not accept a tool that is out of spec to its definition in the cell controller.  The minimum length of the tool definition is equal to the length of the tool in the Vericut library.

When the tool is loaded into the machine it triggers a first use macro, so the machine measures the tool with the laser the first time it goes into the spindle.  If the tool is out more than .01" it is flagged as broken and prevented from further use.  We have one tool library in our shop and that covers turning and milling, CAT40, CAPTO C6, C4, etc...  We aren't a huge shop so it isn't an issue yet.

These are all SOPs in our shop and they are written into our quality manual for AS9100.  The main driver behind most of the processes is the lack of skilled labor in this field and also the fact that even skilled labor folks have bad days and can $hit the bed with the best of them, myself included.  Qualified machinists seem to be a dying breed and some of the folks I have seem present themselves as a 'machinist' were really disappointing.  Our toolroom manager started with zero machining experience and he started running the toolroom after about three months on the job.  This is because he is VERY good at the details but the machines still check his work.  Most of our machinists started with zero to less than two years experience and that includes our entire metrology department.  The processes are all designed with that in mind.

With this system we haven't had a tooling issue in a few years and yes, I'm knocking on my desk right now.  I'm not sure this answers the question given above but I figured I'd share our processes on how we handle tooling.  We have similar processes for every other aspect of the shop (first article, program prove out, program control, etc...) and they are followed to the letter and thus they work well.

[Zoffen]

9 hours ago, Bob W. said:

 We set our tools using a Speroni presetter and the values are entered into our cell controller which will not accept a tool that is out of spec to its definition in the cell controller. 

How is the presetter data entered into the cell controller? Manually? Over the Network? RFID? QR code?

 

[Bob W.]

9 hours ago, Zoffen said:

How is the presetter data entered into the cell controller? Manually? Over the Network? RFID? QR code?

 

We enter the data manually.  When tools are set, tags are printed which stay with the tool until they are physically put into the machine.  The tool data is entered into the cell controller immediately.

 

[JB7280]

20 hours ago, Bob W. said:

We enter the data manually.  When tools are set, tags are printed which stay with the tool until they are physically put into the machine.  The tool data is entered into the cell controller immediately.

 

That sounds like a fantastic system Bob.  We have many of these tools, and systems, but cannot seem to get management to force them into place.  We've tried pushing it ourselves, but unfortunately, something like this requires everyone being onboard, or required to follow the procedure.  I'm definitely going to save that message as a reference of how things can be done!

 

As far as the tool naming, we created a document as a naming template for most different types of tool.

 

 

And the tool names end up looking like this

 

It's not perfect, but it seems to work pretty well for us.  

[SlaveCam]

My mastercam tools don't have any specific naming convention and I don't use the reports provided by mcam. Instead the tools are linked to physical assemblies in a database and all setup sheets can be viewed on an intranet web page and printed out from there. It shows the actual physical items (holder, cutting tools etc.) along with overhang, photo and other information with barcodes, which can be used to issue items from tool management system (Iscar Matrix).

It's still a work in progress. I wrote a custom post that synchronizes mastercam tools with database when changes occur.

[motor-vater]

we name tools to match our toll crib software

 

1/2 3FLT EMC .060RAD 1.0LOC IMCO 61047

Makes it easy for tool crib to set up the tool. We follow it up with a basic set up sheet to define holder, extensions and gage length

[ThisGuy]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:26 PM, Bob W. said:

We actually send very little information to the operators.  No comments, no tool information.  Most things are checked by the machine...  We have multiple tool databases (Mastercam, Vericut, etc...) but our Vericut database is king, meaning if there is ever a question about a tool's geometry Vericut is the record of reference.  This is because we have a policy of 100% of our programs passing Vericut before going to the machines so if a tool is constructed to the Vericut spec it is safe to run.  We have a software application in our tool crib where the tech enters the tool number and it pulls the tool information from Vericut and displays it on the computer.  This includes cutter information, holder information, stickout, and min OAL plus a graphic of what it looks like.  The tools are stored in a locked cabinet (Western Tool's FTS system, it is a 10!).  When the tool manager needs a cutter he types in the tool number and it tells him the location of the tool by cabinet, drawer, row, and column.  We set our tools using a Speroni presetter and the values are entered into our cell controller which will not accept a tool that is out of spec to its definition in the cell controller.  The minimum length of the tool definition is equal to the length of the tool in the Vericut library.

When the tool is loaded into the machine it triggers a first use macro, so the machine measures the tool with the laser the first time it goes into the spindle.  If the tool is out more than .01" it is flagged as broken and prevented from further use.  We have one tool library in our shop and that covers turning and milling, CAT40, CAPTO C6, C4, etc...  We aren't a huge shop so it isn't an issue yet.

These are all SOPs in our shop and they are written into our quality manual for AS9100.  The main driver behind most of the processes is the lack of skilled labor in this field and also the fact that even skilled labor folks have bad days and can $hit the bed with the best of them, myself included.  Qualified machinists seem to be a dying breed and some of the folks I have seem present themselves as a 'machinist' were really disappointing.  Our toolroom manager started with zero machining experience and he started running the toolroom after about three months on the job.  This is because he is VERY good at the details but the machines still check his work.  Most of our machinists started with zero to less than two years experience and that includes our entire metrology department.  The processes are all designed with that in mind.

With this system we haven't had a tooling issue in a few years and yes, I'm knocking on my desk right now.  I'm not sure this answers the question given above but I figured I'd share our processes on how we handle tooling.  We have similar processes for every other aspect of the shop (first article, program prove out, program control, etc...) and they are followed to the letter and thus they work well.

Yes.. this.. exactly this is where I want to go. At this point I spend about as much time making set-up sheets and extra info about tools and materials as I spend making the program itself. That being said, the company I work at got hung up in the 80's and many are still convinced cam programming wouldn't beat programming at the machine. Work in progress to say the least. 

Bob, your workplace sounds like a little pice of heaven

[Bob W.]

10 hours ago, ThisGuy said:

Yes.. this.. exactly this is where I want to go. At this point I spend about as much time making set-up sheets and extra info about tools and materials as I spend making the program itself. That being said, the company I work at got hung up in the 80's and many are still convinced cam programming wouldn't beat programming at the machine. Work in progress to say the least. 

Bob, your workplace sounds like a little pice of heaven

It isn't bad.  We keep the operators busy and we run efficiently.  Ultimately the end result is four operators generating a little under $4M per year through the machines.  It isn't just a tooling strategy to get to this.  It is the shop systems built this way from top to bottom.  The employees are paid well, have 100% health care for them and their families, 401k, etc...  Because the efficiency makes it possible.

[Colin Gilchrist]

28 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

It isn't bad.  We keep the operators busy and we run efficiently.  Ultimately the end result is four operators generating a little under $4M per year through the machines.  It isn't just a tooling strategy to get to this.  It is the shop systems built this way from top to bottom.  The employees are paid well, have 100% health care for them and their families, 401k, etc...  Because the efficiency makes it possible.

This forum really, really, needs a "love" reaction button. 

[pete_hull]

On 2/3/2022 at 2:26 PM, Bob W. said:

 We have multiple tool databases (Mastercam, Vericut, etc...) but our Vericut database is king, meaning if there is ever a question about a tool's geometry Vericut is the record of reference.  This is because we have a policy of 100% of our programs passing Vericut before going to the machines so if a tool is constructed to the Vericut spec it is safe to run. 

Never really occurred to me, but this is a really sound policy. I am in a similar situation, traditionally have been issuing Tool setup documentation generated from catia/mastercam, but recently went all-in on Vericut generated for the reasons you have stated.

 

[Bob W.]

20 minutes ago, pete_hull said:

Never really occurred to me, but this is a really sound policy. I am in a similar situation, traditionally have been issuing Tool setup documentation generated from catia/mastercam, but recently went all-in on Vericut generated for the reasons you have stated.

 

Vericut creates some really good reports and we used them exclusively before creating our own app.  We have worked very hard to get away from paper documents.  A prime goal is for only one copy of anything in the shop, aside from backups.  For example, if there is a printed setup sheet that constitutes a copy, because there is an electronic copy on the server...  A situation could arise where an operator stored or filed the printed copy which would be a violation of our processes, but it could happen.  With electronic copies it will never happen.  It makes AS9100 compliance much simpler.

[ThisGuy]

13 hours ago, Bob W. said:

It isn't bad.  We keep the operators busy and we run efficiently.  Ultimately the end result is four operators generating a little under $4M per year through the machines.  It isn't just a tooling strategy to get to this.  It is the shop systems built this way from top to bottom.  The employees are paid well, have 100% health care for them and their families, 401k, etc...  Because the efficiency makes it possible.

To be honest, I live in a country where worries about health care is not something to worry about in the first place. That being said, care for the employees is not something that every company has. Kudos to you guys for giving back to the people that help making the business successful

[ThisGuy]

@Bob W.Out of curiosity, 4M revenue I guess? 

4 operators, and how many programmers / machines? 

Just asking to have a target to aim at

[Bob W.]

The shop consists of the following:

Makino A51nx HMC - 2 (on robotic cell, Makino MMCr)

Makino A61nx HMC - 1 (on Makino MMC cell)

Makino PS95 VMC - 1

DMG NTX2000 - 1

Mitutoyo AS9106 CMM - 2

 

11 total employees:

Tool crib and machine operator - 1

Machine operators - 2

Operations manager - 1 (helps on the floor when needed)

Inspection - 3

Deburr - 1

Accounting - 1

programming - 1

Sales and quality - 1

 

We run single shift Monday through Friday with minimal OT.  Average work week is maybe 42 hours.

 

[Bob W.]

11 hours ago, ThisGuy said:

@Bob W.Out of curiosity, 4M revenue I guess? 

4 operators, and how many programmers / machines? 

Just asking to have a target to aim at

I only throw this out there because at the end of the day that is the goal.  What does all of the efficiency result in?  Why buy nice machines and tooling and tool setters and fixturing, etc...  It is ultimately to bring up the bottom line and increase sales.  This is the mousetrap we have built and the result is ~$3.75M per year single shift.  It wasn't cheap to get it in place and it has taken over a decade.  Is it the best solution?  Who knows...  There are always better ways to do things but something I always keep in the back of my mind is the folks that profited the most during the gold rush were the ones selling picks and shovels, not the gold miners.  It is a balance between spending money on nice equipment and stuff, and making sure there is still a profit.  When I bought my first Makino for $350k I had just paid off my last machine, a Haas VM3.  Getting into Makinos was a slippery slope but in the end was worth it, to me.  There was probably a different path to retire earlier but it wouldn't have been nearly as fun or interesting.

[ThisGuy]

10 hours ago, Bob W. said:

The shop consists of the following:

Makino A51nx HMC - 2 (on robotic cell, Makino MMCr)

Makino A61nx HMC - 1 (on Makino MMC cell)

Makino PS95 VMC - 1

DMG NTX2000 - 1

Mitutoyo AS9106 CMM - 2

 

11 total employees:

Tool crib and machine operator - 1

Machine operators - 2

Operations manager - 1 (helps on the floor when needed)

Inspection - 3

Deburr - 1

Accounting - 1

programming - 1

Sales and quality - 1

 

We run single shift Monday through Friday with minimal OT.  Average work week is maybe 42 hours.

 

Some follow up questions.

Does the DMG had a automatic bar loader?

You say 3 employees for inspection, 1 sales and quality. Inspection is not the same as quality control? 

I'm surprised about only 1 programming for 5 machines. I've worked in aluminium (7075) moulding before where I was making inserts, sizes around matchbox - shoebox, all singe pice except a mirror program now and then. Working 40 hours, I usually got about 120 machine hours a week out of 1 machine with loading cell. If you have 1 programming for 5 machines can I assume either there is a lot of big series, or programs with long runtimes?

Moulds for truck or van grills, or covers for speakers could run hours or days for a single pice since they have networks of trenches around 1 or 2mm wide but 25mm deep

[ThisGuy]

10 hours ago, Bob W. said:

I only throw this out there because at the end of the day that is the goal.  What does all of the efficiency result in?  Why buy nice machines and tooling and tool setters and fixturing, etc...  It is ultimately to bring up the bottom line and increase sales.  This is the mousetrap we have built and the result is ~$3.75M per year single shift.  It wasn't cheap to get it in place and it has taken over a decade.  Is it the best solution?  Who knows...  There are always better ways to do things but something I always keep in the back of my mind is the folks that profited the most during the gold rush were the ones selling picks and shovels, not the gold miners.  It is a balance between spending money on nice equipment and stuff, and making sure there is still a profit.  When I bought my first Makino for $350k I had just paid off my last machine, a Haas VM3.  Getting into Makinos was a slippery slope but in the end was worth it, to me.  There was probably a different path to retire earlier but it wouldn't have been nearly as fun or interesting.

I really appreciate the info. I've been in the business for over 10 years now but since 3 months with the current company. I am quite confident to say I'm a good programmer/machinist but in my new role I'm setting up the cam department basically from the group up. This brings a lot of challenges I've never had to deal with before, especially old timers that have been working their machine for 40 years the way they do it. All the respect cause they definitely have a lot of knowledge, unfortunately I don't always get the same respect back. 

Besides that, settings up a solid base for other people to work with which also leaves room for expansion in the future without having to get back to the drawing board is challenging to say the least.

I'd rather bite down on some complicated titanium turbofan, that is a lot easier that dealing with these kind of problems

[crazy^millman]

8 hours ago, ThisGuy said:

I really appreciate the info. I've been in the business for over 10 years now but since 3 months with the current company. I am quite confident to say I'm a good programmer/machinist but in my new role I'm setting up the cam department basically from the group up. This brings a lot of challenges I've never had to deal with before, especially old timers that have been working their machine for 40 years the way they do it. All the respect cause they definitely have a lot of knowledge, unfortunately I don't always get the same respect back. 

Besides that, settings up a solid base for other people to work with which also leaves room for expansion in the future without having to get back to the drawing board is challenging to say the least.

I'd rather bite down on some complicated titanium turbofan, that is a lot easier that dealing with these kind of problems

Been there done that no fun at all. Your last sentence is why I quit being a Shop Foreman or Shop Manager 15 years ago. Being an Consultant does present it own challenges. but end of the day I don't have the stress of managing people. 

[Bob W.]

12 hours ago, ThisGuy said:

Some follow up questions.

Does the DMG had a automatic bar loader?

You say 3 employees for inspection, 1 sales and quality. Inspection is not the same as quality control? 

I'm surprised about only 1 programming for 5 machines. I've worked in aluminium (7075) moulding before where I was making inserts, sizes around matchbox - shoebox, all singe pice except a mirror program now and then. Working 40 hours, I usually got about 120 machine hours a week out of 1 machine with loading cell. If you have 1 programming for 5 machines can I assume either there is a lot of big series, or programs with long runtimes?

Moulds for truck or van grills, or covers for speakers could run hours or days for a single pice since they have networks of trenches around 1 or 2mm wide but 25mm deep

The DMG does have a bar loader but we haven't used it yet.  We hardly even use the chucks.  Most of the time we have a Lang fixture plate on the main spindle because we use the machine to cut titanium castings.  We have been working toward repeat production for the last several years so the programming load is actually pretty low.  I do the programming and most of my time currently is spent on process improvement for both time reduction and process stability.

To make aerospace parts and maintain a solid quality system pretty much requires a full time person to manage it.  This means verifying customer quality requirements, internal compliance to our processes, etc...  When taking on a new top level aerospace customer our quality manual might grow by 100 pages to add all of the additional, customer specific requirements.  This is why it is difficult to do aerospace as a small shop.  Also the work is expensive to make (titanium, inconel, etc...) and the payment terms are long.

The inspection department consists of one CMM programmer and two operators that also do physical inspection (check for burrs, gage threads, etc...)