O/T Which goes first, water or coolant?

[n_tydingco]

I was told by the area rep that we mixed our coolant wrong when we added coolant to a 5-gallon bucket of water. He says that now the water molecules surround the coolant molecules (reverse emulsification) and our coolant sumps should be dumped and refilled ("the right way").

 

I asked him for the data (and pictures) to prove what he is saying and so far no data. The brochure does say to mix the concentrate to the water and never the other way.

 

What do you think?

[crazy^millman]

I have always done it this way for years. I found that the coolant clumps if doen the other way. A good test use a rafactometer and check the mixutre both ways and see which one is weaker I think you will find the water first is just a little weaker.

 

Now I am not saying drain all of yout tanks do it only when you need to. If you take and run a mixing stick in there will help but to drain it all and start over I would only do this at the next changing time but that is my humble opinion.

[Rekd™]

Is he saying that you're changing the molecular properties and structure of the mix by mixing it 2 different ways?

 

I guess that means on those rare occasions when I poor the Bailey's in the cup BEFORE the coffee, as opposed to adding a splash on top of the coffee, I'm not getting meh potential alcohol levels?

 

THAT, my friends, is alcohol abuse!

[Lars Christensen]

Rekd you are killing me LOL.

 

I called Hangsterfeds aplication with the question, about 6 months ago (because I had no clue, what, how and why).

I was TOLD (I did not hit the caps lock by mistake) that you fill a buckett of water, and add coolant to the water (I am using a "drill-cement mixer") and mix it up, then use a rafactormeter to get the desired level. Also I was TOLD NOT to put pure water in the machine when level get to high, because of the water evaporate, because pure water will not get mixed up with the coolant. The Tech rep. illustratet it nicely to my little brain by using the example, of pure milk getting poored in choclate milk.

However in the shop I work it seems very hard to get people to check the coolant with the rafactormeter, so I am in the middel of looking into a cooling mixer, I have found a link for one, that hooks up to a 55 gallon drum, and a water hose, dont think that they are very expensive, we had one of those back in a shop I worked at, and that shop did not spend money unless it was cheap.

 

Lars

[Rekd™]

 

When he did the example with the choclate milk, did he stir it up?

[Lars Christensen]

quote:

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When he did the example with the choclate milk, did he stir it up?

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YES, you have to mix the choclate milk before adding it to the machine, 25/75 is the ratio.

 

Lars

[Rekd™]

Ok, I give. What does it do? I don't have any choclate milk. I can see why certain chems would need to be mixed in the proper order to get a desired result, i.e. cyanide and hydrochloric acid, but choclate milk? Water soluble coolants? Imma go to costco and get a chemistry set.

 

For Chantz...

[Gary]

I have been told both ways by different coolant distributors. I don't see any dif. We had a coolant rep that used to stop by and he would check it for us. I would purposely mix it both ways and he could never tell the dif. The chocolate milk thing is neat in theory but what if you shake the xxxx out of it in a cup it all blends together kinda like the coolant as it circulate it through the coolant system. Just my own experiences

[Lars Christensen]

I got to agree with you Rekd, can not see what it matters, as long as it gets mixed to the right ratio.

 

Lars

[Lars Christensen]

My small Haas minimill do not mix the coolant very well with the coolant pump, but I could imagen that on a better and bigger machine, the coolant would be mixed good.

 

Lars

[Rick Damiani]

I think the idea is to start at a low consintration and work up rather than start at a high concintration and work down.

[Harryman]

Check out Andrew's notes on coolant in previous threads. He's got me convinced to do a better of mixing. I'm right now opening up a Blaser Jetmix unit. Try before buy

[McRae]

Answer - Add concentrate to bucket of water.

 

Factor - Time

 

There are several reasons for this. In order to activate the emulsifier, it needs to be diluted in a 20:1 proportion (about 5%) and in order to do this, adding the water to coolant will bring the concentration from 100% to 5% rather slowly making the transition/reaction take longer than it naturally wants to go. There is potential for some of the emulsifer to be waster - therby reducing its effectivness. When you add the coolant to water - you are gradually bringing the concentration UP from 0% to 5% and this is what the emulsifier like to see.

 

Anyway, I am not in the business of selling coolant so it is not my suggestion to DUMP out all that you have - just run with it and at the next change out, do what you think is right, after all, you have to run it.

[jbel]

How does any emulsifier know

"this is what the emulsifier like to see"??

 

I can understand that at first the mixing ratio may appear to be off by doing it one way as opposed to another.

 

Either way you mix this stuff up it is going to go through a coolant pump where the fluid shear forces are unbelieveably high in order to get the pressure in the coolant system high enough to be effective. It should emulsify just fine after one pass through the system.

 

We have one of those drumtop mixers and it works really well. I think it adds the coolant to the water stream.

[Noel]

I too was told but a coolant rep to always add water to the oil not the other way round.Not that it matters because if you tell an opperator to do it one way they will enevitably do it the other way because we all know that they always know better.I was told that the oil would sepparate from the water if you added the oil to the water.Plus if you put the oil in the bucket first the water presure will help to mix it all up.the best way to end the problem is to buy a mixing head.We bought one from hengsterfers however it is not the type I would buy again because it uses different sized venturi to vary the concentration so if you want one ratio for make up and one for recharge it is a pain in the arse.The better ones use a dial to control the ratio but try telling the boss you want a $1200 mixing head and you usualy get the $250 buget model.

 

 

JM2C

 

 

Noel

[ktd]

We use a coolant mixer and it works excellent. It also saves use alot of money on our coolant.

[Quickmike]

I think its just a liability issue so the coolant company doesn't have their chemical at its full strength potential to wreak havoc inside a shop and then be sued by someone who broke out in a rash.

[McRae]

"The better ones use a dial to control the ratio but try telling the boss you want a $1200 mixing head and you usualy get the $250 buget model."

 

Should have told him it cost $5760 then you would have been able to spend the $1200. Just a techique I learned from my Wife. Works for her every time she uses it on me...

[elbro]

Rule of thumb that I was told. If it is a oil base or semi synthetic you always add the coolant to the water.

 

Oil

In

Last

[Noel]

quote:

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Should have told him it cost $5760 then you would have been able to spend the $1200. Just a techique I learned from my Wife. Works for her every time she uses it on me...

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+1

 

That goes right along with my favorite saying It is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permision.

[ktd]

We purchased a really nice unit it is from Force-Flow inc. It cost $350 canadian. And it is adjustable with a dial. Works great

[Rekd™]

Ok, I'm convinced. From now on I'm adding the ice first, then the coke, THEN the rum.

[Noel]

quote:

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What's in your sippy cup?

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Rye(wisers deluxe) and ginger ale(Canada dry)with a Molson Ex chaser. Repeat as necessary.

 

 

Noel

[A-ron1286490684]

quote:

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What's in your sippy cup?

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1 part Stoli

1 part water

1 part Sunny-D (Smooth Cali style)

2 parts cranberry (Ocean Spray)

 

Repeat as necessary...

[chip]

quote:

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I guess that means on those rare occasions when I poor the Bailey's in the cup BEFORE the coffee, as opposed to adding a splash on top of the coffee, I'm not getting meh potential alcohol levels?

 

THAT, my friends, is alcohol abuse!

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