is X better?

[g huns]

quote:

---

If you set your filter tol. too large trying to get a smaller program you will not get good results.

---

All my surface finish paths have the default tol set to 2:1 with total tolerance .0002. I've got a Fanuc 16m with data server so I have never worried about program size.

[Bruce Caulley]

Chip,

If you turn pre-selection off some of the selection filters don't work. We also have good video cards. My point was that, in my opinion, X was released with bugs/problems that should have been caught very early in the beta cycle.

 

I never expected it to be bug free and in fact once we start using X full time I wouldn't be surprised if we come across some more problems to report. That is just the nature of the work we do.

 

Bruce

[?Mark]

quote:

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I don't want to to be seen to be calling into question their integrity or commitment to the beta programme

---

I say $10 per bug, with $50 bonus if accompanied by step by step instruction to validate a bug.

 

I call it efficient beta testing

 

Mark (with my flame suit on )

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

I believe that one other thing that they had in common was that they were all possibly MC "fans" and as a result were willing to accept workarounds as a stepping stone to achieve proficiency.

---

 

 

PEACE

[Gilberto]

Tooldev,

 

Did you try the NEW Finish Pencil with Unlimited stepover? (it works like Scallop)

[gcode]

quote:

---

I don't want to to be seen to be calling into question their integrity or commitment to the beta programme

---

Bruce,

This comment leads me to believe that you don't have a clue what beta testers do. We have absolutley no say in whether a product is go or no-go.

We install the program and try to use it. When we find a bug we report it. If we have a suggestion

we make it. If XB1 turns our computers into overpriced flower pots, that's just too freaking bad. Rebuild it and start over.

 

We are not consulted about release readiness or any other aspect of product development. Like you,

we run what they give us.

 

Our integrity or lack therof has nothing to do with it. If we weren't "fans" of Mastercam we

would not put up with the aggravation, hassle and expense of being beta testers.

 

If you have doubts that we've been working, please check out to the ReadMe file dated 9/9/05

in C:mcamxdocumtents. Every dead bug you see listed there took a beta tester to find, document

and sumbit. While its obvious that we havn't got them all, we havn't exactly been screwing off either.

[Bruce Caulley]

Gcode,

I'll finish the quote for you.

quote:

---

as they were not ultimately responsible for the release and each would have hade his contribution to any problems he found.

 

---

Bruce

[DavidB]

Is it better now? I'd say no.

It's not better than V9, yes it has a new interface. You can do Lathe and Mill ops in the 1 file great.

 

X has no real new toolpaths except multi pencil.

It's not more stable, it needs older Video drivers and you loose screen space.

Backplot is a BIG dissapointment.

Lathe crashes every time I use it.

The posts are not perfect from V9 into X.

 

Hopefully MR1 will be an improvement

[jeff]

quote:

---

Backplot is a BIG dissapointment.

---

I kinda like the new backplot myself,although I have yet to mess with X lathe.

still pulling my hair out with X mill

The only real issues I have is stuff like updating posts,it's a real p.i.t.a. when it doesn't go smoothly.

[DavidB]

Jeff,what would you do if you never had MC before bought MCX, then wanted to post to a controller other than a Fanuc???????

 

There are no posts for MCX other than Fanuc

[jeff]

sure there is,I have X posts for Fadal.

Or are you being sarcastic?

[PBpaul]

I have to agree that Maintenence has rubbed us the wrong way. I don't like the concept of it or the price of it. Still, I went with the flow and did it for 2 years, just a blind faith thing. Now I have the benefit of being able to look back and sorta scratch my head and think about how smart that was!

 

As far as X in general, there is no question that it is an improvment over 9. It'll take some time to warm up to, but there are improvments to be found on just about any page. We do a fair amount of Surface Rough Pocketing, for instance. I found a little box under Depth Cuts that says "Keep Top Cut at Max Stepdown." It's great.

 

I'm reminded of when Autocad changed its interface from "DOS-ish" to Windows-ish" 10-plus years ago. There were improvements but also lots of issues. One of the biggest was printing on Windows system printers and plotting on pen plotters. I expect Mastercam is feeling the same temporary pain and it must be a real challenge.

 

 

PBPaul

[DC Gorn]

MCX had to be done. Not for us power users but for the new guys coming in. Every Cam sales started their softwares pitch with "Well Mastercam is just a ported Dos base program" Those of us that are a custom to MC9 interface like cause we know it, to someone just starting out the windows bases system will be easier.

 

The mistake CNC software has made has been mostly marketing. Selling maintenance as a way to get MCX then being over a year late releaseing it. Now saying these bugs will be fixed in the next MR build. While I think they are trying to show value in the maintenance they are in fact holding their software for ransom.

 

They should have just offered maintenance not pushed it. Most larger companys would pick it up anyway, its cheap compaired to most softwares. They should NEVER release a MR build while there are known bugs in commonly used features that render MCX unusable to some companys. Fix the bugs then let the MR's or great support be the reason people get maintenance. Again Marketing.

 

Thats it Im going and taking my soap box with me.

[El Scotthead]

It took some time and blood, but we're finally running on X only. I agree that I probably liked it so much in the beginning because it was something new. But I've also gotten a couple compliments from the man in charge(who paid for the software) on how fast I'm getting parts made now. My programming time seems like a fraction of what it was in 9. You really just have to use X with an open mind.

quote:

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and you loose screen space.

---

You know you can turn off all those toolbars, right? And there are hotkeys for virtually everything in those menus at the top of the screen(like any windows app). I like the screen space gained because there's no menu bar on the left side, like in V9.

 

And posts? Try finding one for a Creative Evolution control. My reseller was a big help in this department, as was this forum, and don't forget Creative Evolution themselves.

 

quote:

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It doesn't just jump into my head!

---

ROFL, Chip. If it did, I sure as heck wouldn't wouldn't be here making this pittance

[Dan Kintzel]

Is X better? My opinion: Definetely NOT. I've tried to be as open-minded as I can tolerate, but most of my patience ran out over the 2 years of waiting for this so-called second coming anti-christ of CAM software. The time it took to get MC into a windows based system is not worth all the problems that we constantly deal with in getting X to produce proper parts. V9 runs like a champ with no complaints whatsoever, so I still remain a dedicated MC user with this version. After several phone calls with X issues to our reseller, with no helpful replies and answers, we are through with X at our company. I see more threads on X problems than I see good, this doesn't speak any volumes of a better software if you ask me. Sugar coat it all you want, but our copy of X is still for sale, CHEAP! (Free calendar included)

 

OUT!

[Guest]

Is X better, darn right it is.

 

The power, the functionality but most of all the base that is being established for things to come.

 

Now with that being said there are some quirks that CNC is still working thru, but they ARE working to address them.

 

Back plot has been a disappointment so far.

 

When I went and began setting up X. I read and talked and listened to what was being said. My transition has been for the most part, painless.

 

It seems most people complaining forget or just never knew that when V9 first was released many of these problems also existed but a point release and a couple of SP's and V9.1 SP2 is one rock solid piece of CAM software. I suspect X will reach and even perhaps surpass that plateau.

 

As far as the people complaining about maintenance, go look at the cost of other CAM systems fees, these are mild in comparison, also it IS the industry norm today.

 

If you're using a mill level 3 seat of mastercam then your machining ability is on par with NX, check out what a year of maintenance of theirs will cost you.

[medaq]

quote:

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As far as the people complaining about maintenance, go look at the cost of other CAM systems fees, these are mild in comparison, also it IS the industry norm today.

---

I am one of those complainers. And I have good reason to complain. Since it was sold to me, I was told at anytime you want to upgrade versions. All you had to do is pay for the upgrade price, and then you got all changes for that version. To change that after the fact is poor business. I really dont care if it is the industry norm.

 

Why I dont care, is I dont see the drive to have cnc software release a good product. I in fact see the complete opposite with the maintenance option. Why would they want to give mastercam 10 bug free? They have absolutely no incentive to do so. And you can see that in the complaints of this release.

 

Now I have version 8.1 and With all the problems occuring I still see no reason to upgrade my company. I still feel this release by removing the tree so it can be more colorful for new users was a wrong move on cnc's part. They could of easily kept it in as a option. No one can tell me they can click faster by moving your mouse all over the screen to find what you want, than the relativly short distances of the tree to get practialy anything done with in 3 very short clicks. I still to this day can not stand the icons on top of mastercam 8. Least I can remove that bar. Why would I want to pay for a upgrade that forces this slower method.

 

And I will not ever upgrade if I am forced to pay for a program full of bugs. We pay to much for the software to do that. And to be baited to be forced to pay a " maintenance fee " to fix bugs in a program that should not be there in the first place.

 

Waiting to be flamed since I obviously have a more unpopular opion of the new software. And it sucks to, I was hoping for a good reason to upgrade. With hoping of new toolpaths or something to say to me, here is your reason to upgrade, and this will help with your productivity.

[Guest]

quote:

---

I am one of those complainers. And I have good reason to complain. Since it was sold to me, I was told at anytime you want to upgrade versions. All you had to do is pay for the upgrade price, and then you got all changes for that version. To change that after the fact is poor business. I really dont care if it is the industry norm.

---

This thinking is suicidal for a business. If you're business did not change with the times, you might survive for a while but eventually you would be eaten up by someone doing it better, samrter, faster.

 

quote:

---

Why I dont care, is I dont see the drive to have cnc software release a good product. I in fact see the complete opposite with the maintenance option. Why would they want to give mastercam 10 bug free? They have absolutely no incentive to do so. And you can see that in the complaints of this release.

---

Do you really believe they would release a product that would damage their own business base?

 

Again, this is suicidal thinking.

 

quote:

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Now I have version 8.1 and With all the problems occuring I still see no reason to upgrade my company. I still feel this release by removing the tree so it can be more colorful for new users was a wrong move on cnc's part. They could of easily kept it in as a option. No one can tell me they can click faster by moving your mouse all over the screen to find what you want, than the relativly short distances of the tree to get practialy anything done with in 3 very short clicks. I still to this day can not stand the icons on top of mastercam 8. Least I can remove that bar. Why would I want to pay for a upgrade that forces this slower method.

---

Enjoy your version of 8.1, it'll do the job, now.

 

Depending on your business, a few years will tell. Then what will your cost and learning curve be, just to cacth up to where the industry has gone?

 

No, they could not have kept it easily as an option, if you think this you know little about software design. There are some things with the DOS base that simply can not be created in a windows enviorment.

 

Yes you can work faster once you understand what you're doing with it, but yes, it does take a little getting used to. Most people have become quite comfortable within a month or so.

 

quote:

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And I will not ever upgrade if I am forced to pay for a program full of bugs. We pay to much for the software to do that. And to be baited to be forced to pay a " maintenance fee " to fix bugs in a program that should not be there in the first place.

---

Well it's no wonder you're still running V8.1. V9 was originally a mess but was quickly adjusted and adapted. You missed one nice piece of software.

 

quote:

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Waiting to be flamed since I obviously have a more unpopular opion of the new software.

---

Hope you don't view this as a flame. I disagree with your assessment and simply tried to answer your criticizisms

[Zero]

quote:

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I still to this day can not stand the icons on top of mastercam 8. Least I can remove that bar

---

why would you want to remove that bar???? the big advantage of the icon bar in versions 7-9 is this: while in the middle of any function/command, you can hit one of those icons to jump to the new command, finish it, and be right in the middle of your last command/function where you left off (this also worked with any assigned hotkey command). "Big deal" you're probably all saying...well try this:

 

 

In v8/9 pop open your wcs manager and create a new wcs relative to a bounding box on your part, the way you want it positioned on your machine. The new WCS is now created, and your WCS manager pops back up. OK now you want to select the zero for your new wcs on a point or at the midpoint/end point of a line so it will be associative (wherever you move that geo, your wcs will move with it and update any operations tied to it)so hit the select zero button and the manager disappears waiting for your selection of the new point from your geometry...but wait, that geometry doesnt exist....NP, just hit the icon on the bar for create line or create point or whatever else you desire, and bang, off you go creating geo wherever you want, when your done hit esc to jump out of the create command and your right where you left off with the WCS manager waiting for you to select your zero point.

 

or try this:

 

your Operations Manager is active, you've selected to do a finish shallow toolpath on your surfaces, you select the needed surfaces and get to your parameters dialog. Now you decide you want to contain this shallow with a boundry, for whatever reason, so you hit the containment boundry select button and go to select your boundry...but wait...it doesnt exist yet..NP!!!! just hit whichever button you'd like on the toolbar up top...create/offset/offset contour...whatever...and your off making your containment boundry all nice and perdy like, hit esc once or twice when your done to exit out of the create function, and again, your right back where you were with MC waiting for you to select your new boundry for your shallow toolpath...select it and youre on your way.

 

 

 

 

Now, try doing this with X. Youll get an error telling you you must exit the current function or command first before executing another....WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!

Man, you've just slowed down my workflow gobs and gobs. Now I must exit out of the current function, execute my new function, go back to the old function and get back to where I need to select my new geometry. THIS SUCKS!!!

 

When I heard about the detatchable/dockable toolbars for the "New" MC I creamed myself...."oh this is gonna be awesome" I thought to myself. Then I installed it and get a nice big slap in the face. Every icon has just made effectively null and void because I can hit a couple of hotkeys 10x faster than searching for that one right little hiroglyphic(?) to execute what I need and they've lost all the advantage that they had in previous versions...I might as well kill everything but the MRU bar.

 

 

 

This is one of my 2 or 3 biggest compliants with the new MC...like I said before, this is a big workflow jammer...now I must make sure I have all the relative geometry for a part that I could possibly imagine needing before I even jump into the WCS Manager, let alone the Ops Manager, before I start actually "programming" my part to get to the machine...or else I get half way through a WCS or Toolpathing process, figure out I need new geo to accomplish what I want, back all the way out, create my new geo and start right back at the beginning where I was before.....bummer

[medaq]

quote:

---

This thinking is suicidal for a business. If you're business did not change with the times, you might survive for a while but eventually you would be eaten up by someone doing it better, samrter, faster.

---

I still have yet to see how mcam x is doing it better, smarter, and faster. I have been in a hard debate with myself to continue to stay with mastercam at all, or go with a software that I have seen kick my softwares xxxx. I was hoping I would of seen some huge upgrades in mcamx that would of caught up to the other software I have seen over a year ago. And this comes from someone "me" who is a big fan of mastercam. I fought the other guy, who told me mastercam spits out inferior code, and is slower in every way possible. And in every situation, he did prove me wrong. I was astounded to see how far my seat of mastercam was behind his software.

 

quote:

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Do you really believe they would release a product that would damage their own business base?

 

Again, this is suicidal thinking.

---

I dont know what to think, when I read what I read. Not compatible with todays video drivers, printing not working, upgrade issues, hasp dropping, backplot crashing and so on. Seems like there was a crap load more work to do, and it was rushed to the market. Even though it was tested for a long xxxx time. No posts unless you upgrade from version 9. How about those people who are just trying out version 10? What do they do to get going? Alot of the users here using mcam10 have version 9 to fall back on.

 

quote:

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Enjoy your version of 8.1, it'll do the job, now.

 

Depending on your business, a few years will tell. Then what will your cost and learning curve be, just to cacth up to where the industry has gone?

 

No, they could not have kept it easily as an option, if you think this you know little about software design. There are some things with the DOS base that simply can not be created in a windows enviorment.

 

Yes you can work faster once you understand what you're doing with it, but yes, it does take a little getting used to. Most people have become quite comfortable within a month or so.

---

I dont know, having a tree does not sound very difficult to me, And I have asked some good programmer friends of mine, Very reputable programmers. I could make a tree system on a commodore 64, very outdated technology. They can add in scripts, complex algorithyms for 3d cutting but not the little tree to keep it somewhat standard to the old versions? Maybe I am simplyfing the proces it takes, I really dont know, I am not a programmer, but that tree so it would be easier to find stuff if need to be. Can not be that difficult.

 

I still feel from what I have seen, downloading that trial version when it was availble. And toying around with the layout. Forcing alot of work to one hand, than the old methods of hot keys to distribute the work betwee 2 hands is a slower process.

 

quote:

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Well it's no wonder you're still running V8.1. V9 was originally a mess but was quickly adjusted and adapted. You missed one nice piece of software.

---

I only saw a very few options in mcam 9 that was worth upgrading for, But not enough to justify a maintenance. You have to remember I am the one who makes the decisions of spending for a small company. And I am the end user of the software. I would gladly upgrade if I can see the cost effectiveness of a product. But I did not see anything in mastercam9 that would make anything faster than in version 8. I still can do postable programs dancing around a pallet, with probing. So I fail to see where I am falling behind in the times?

 

Now dont get me wrong, maybe I am missing something. But reading the upgrades from their site does not warrant a full upgrade.

 

quote:

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Hope you don't view this as a flame. I disagree with your assessment and simply tried to answer your criticizisms

---

Nope dont take your view as a flame at all. But debatable material from a person who is actualy using the software. I welcome your comments to challenge what I am writing. I still would love to see someones opinion who is actualy footing the bill, rather than a employee of a company.

 

Jim

[DavidB]

quote:

---

sure there is,I have X posts for Fadal.

Or are you being sarcastic?

---

No Im not Jim.

Where are the Posts? There not on the MCX cd, and I've asked my reseller for some he says he has nothing?

[Guest]

David,

 

There were additional posts included in SP1

[DavidB]

OK thanks John

 

They added a couple of Fadal posts for Milling.WOW

Look how many Posts you got with V9 where are they now?

 

 

Nothing for Turn-Mill Machines other than Fanuc or straight Turning for that matter

[Guest]

There was a bunch of them included.

 

There were added lathe posts, 2 axis, 4 axis,

VTL and some others but I don't have the entire list in front of me. If it doesn't show up tonite I can post an available list tomorrow.

[DavidB]

There is nothing but Fanuc posts for Lathe