MC for complex aerospace work

[Bruce Caulley]

Hello all,

I have made recommendations about reducing the number of CAM packages that we use and the comment was made to me by one of our new powermill junkies that mastercam is no good for complex 5 axis and surfacing toolpaths.

 

I almost fell over, because that is what we do.

 

Some of the complexity is starting to increase, but I have noticed a tendency among powermill users to imply that MC is only good for 2d work.

 

So lets have a rollcall, who else does high end machining of moulds and aerospace parts?

 

Can anyone post some pictures or screen shots? (ITAR excluded of course!!)

 

Thanks

Bruce

[gcode]

We have 10 seats of Mastercam ( only 4 programmers right now) and 1 seat of Catia.

We have one Catia programmer who gets the really tough 5X work. Mastercam does the rest.

I can't put any files up, its all classified government stuff

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I have done and do complex 5 Axis stuff. The problem generally is not with Mastercam's ability to do something, it usually with the end user (which pisses people off to hear, but hey, let's be honest about things instead of politically correct). I've not seen a part yet that cannot be done in Mastercam and I've seen some WICKED car wreckage lookin' stuff and worse in my day.

 

JM2C

[DavidB]

Bruce,We do same work as you.

Im the only Programmer and use only MC.

I can't show you any Aerospace we do. But have you seen the Commenwealth Games Baton? I programed that it was made from Magnesium.

I've used Powermill when I was a Toolmaker and it was fast and powerful, but it couldn't do any 2d or drilling, plus its just a CAM package not a CAD/CAM package.

I did not think there was anything that could not be made with MC.

[Midwest]

quote:

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The problem generally is not with Mastercam's ability to do something, it usually with the end user (which pisses people off to hear, but hey, let's be honest about things instead of politically correct)

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Never had anything I couldn't program and make yet with Mastercam. "knock on wood"

 

[kccadcam]

quote:

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I've seen some WICKED car wreckage lookin' stuff and worse in my day.

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ROFLMAO

 

That's so true,and parts seem to get more complex every day....

 

We have 1 seat of Catia, multiple seats of Solidworks in Engineering.

We program everything in Mastercam.

(Except for the Screw Machines,,, cough,cough,PartMaker,cough,,,)

Anybody seen MATSS around lately??

 

The closest I can come for pics:

http://www.davistl.com/about/samples/index.php

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...We program everything in Mastercam.

(Except for the Screw Machines,,, cough,cough,PartMaker,cough,,,)...

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That's AWESOME Kevin!!

[ak762]

quote:

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We have 10 seats of Mastercam ( only 4 programmers right now)

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gcode

Wow !

You bought for stock or so many vacancy?

[CAM-mando]

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Wow ! [Eek!]

You bought for stock or so many vacancy?

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You kidding me ... one Gcode is like 10 ordinary men .. they just got the extra seats for the day when G walks out and they have to replace him.

[Greg Williams]

quote:

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I have made recommendations about reducing the number of CAM packages that we use and the comment was made to me by one of our new powermill junkies that mastercam is no good for complex 5 axis and surfacing toolpaths.

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And Powermill is?

[DC Gorn]

"Just my opinion"

You need to look at the Machines (controlers) you have or will have and your programmers. Not just your parts. Example: Haas VF2 with a 210 trunion. We where able to bring a very complex part aerospace part off. I can not go into detail about the part but there was no 90 deg angles and I did get 5 G's for one part and it was 100% from mastercam.

I thought at that point Mastercam could do anything. And it could with that Haas. Now I have DMU's with Heidenhain controlers. Now I have a ton of options designed for 5 ax. Most notable is the G141. This allows for cutter comp in 5 axis moves. From what I have read Mastercam does not support G141. From talking to tech support for Heidenhain there are CAM packages out there that do support 5 axis comp. This comp can be used on Flat, Ball and bull nose endmills. This would be a huge advantage on fussy or production 5 ax parts.

[gcode]

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You bought for stock or so many vacancy

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They had 10 seats when I started here. At the

most we've had 5 MC programmers. A couple are down on the floor so the guys can check stuff out.

One is a design only for our engineer.

3 are on maintenance running X. I use my personal seat.

 

We build "twisted wreckage" all the time here and use Mastercam to do it. You can do just about anything with MC, but Catia is much easier and faster for some complex 5X stuff.

Of course, you can buy a full seat of Mastercam for the price of annual maintenance on a seat of Catia and then you've got to buy post software.

All together it cost about $80K to get that seat up and running.

We've got 3 programmers at the moment. Crazy-millman (Ron) hired in here as a programmer about

5 months ago, but they stole him and made him

shop foreman.

Another forum member came in for an interview

Monday, so maybe we'll be back up to 4 programmers again soon.

[Jaz]

Aircraft is all we do, MC is all we use. Lots of complex 4 & 5 axis stuff. The magic of using the special features of a particular control is in the post, not a problem with MC's capability.

[Bruce Caulley]

Thanks all. I wonder what he thinks we have been using to make our "car wreckage" for the last few years.

 

Bruce

[cblythe3d]

Just what kind of surfacing is this guy referring to. Mastercam has had bullet proof miultisurf since V8.

 

Gantry drilling 5 axis spar holes aint no trick in MC. Loft and other reference data keeps well in the blank database.

 

Perhaps he finds the learning curve daunting or is pining for the purity of APT code.

 

Would he be so kind as to post an example of a part that would be more efficiently processed on another CAM system by the avalable pool of experienced skilled programers familar with that CAM package.

 

Yes full time 5 axis kellering can produce an optimal cutter path for spar milling. But at the end of the day a less efficient but avalable and practical set of tools got the job done.

 

Charlie

Mirror x and Mirror y = 180 deg rotation

[Slava_6]

Guys or you so like MC or you do not see other programs. Such as UG. 5-axis in UG much more powerfully also allows to do very complex details, which I could not make in МС.

[Jim at Gentex]

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which I could not make in МС

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...what James said...

 

With all due respect Slava_6, James is 100% correct. Just because one person can't do a particular thing in MC doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

I too deal in complex 3D surfacing and 5 axis aerospace type stuff and have yet to see a part we couldn't make with Mastercam. Maybe I am somewhat biased, but Mastercam does have 'the goods' as far as I can see.

[Bruce Caulley]

I am sure that some packages do some of it easier/better, but by that same logic we would all be using a different package for every different type of tool path we use.

 

I agree that there is no part under the sun that cannot be made with MC. In our case my argument is that IF there is a small advantage in using powermill on some parts it is heavily outweighed by having everybody concentrating on getting the best out of a package that can at least drill and tap a decent bloody hole!!

 

 

Bruce

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I absolutely see other packages. Dollar for dollar, feature for feature do I think MC is better? Youbetcha!!!

 

Of course there are more powerful programs. The debate is not over power but functionality, as in can Mastercam handle the job. So to date, I have not seen a part that cannot be programmed in MC. If you've got something, please share.

[Guest]

quote:

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Guys or you so like MC or you do not see other programs. Such as UG. 5-axis in UG much more powerfully also allows to do very complex details, which I could not make in МС.

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I do have UG installed on my computer at work and honestly, I hate it.

 

I have Gibbs, it's a toy.

 

I have Surfcam, their older version, V5, I think, was better.

 

Speaking to a manager at a GE plant near here a couple weeks back, he's professing how great UG is, I almost laughed at him. There is nothing that UG can do that is so special that it cannot be done in MC, you just have to know how. Wonder if that's why I never heard back from them.

 

You want to use sequential mill to do your 5ax stuff, knock yourself out.

 

UG has power, no doubt. What mastercam has over UG is ease of use. With that you get all the functionality to go along with it.

[Greg Williams]

Ah yes the age old question which is better?

 

It is a bit like moving a pallet of frieght really

 

Do I need a 2 Ton, 12 Ton or 30 ton Truck?

 

Well if your current truck does the job why change?

 

Comparing UG to mastercam is not comparing apples to apples, They do not cost the same.

 

Comparing Mastercam to Powermill is a fair comparison they have a similar cost, have similar functions and both have very strong points.

 

If a particular shop has Software "XYZ" and people already trained in its use then there needs to be a clearcut and definitive reason for change other wise it is only change for the sake of change and that is never a good thing.