Maintenance expiring

[crazy^millman]

I think it was soemthing to do with Multi spindle mutli turret mutli axis machining but not sure about what each letter means.

[gcode]

quote:

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What is MATTS

---

I may not even have the acronym right.It might be

MATSS. Its multiaxis simultaneous machining.

ie a 4 axis lathe with the top and bottom

turrets cutting at the same time.

also Swiss screw machine type stuff.

Mastercam delayed its release to concentrate

on X a couple of years ago.

Some people bought V9 expecting a MATTS addon

in the near future.

It is my understanding that it was delayed because

CNC Software felt they needed Machine and Control Defs to get MATTS right.

[beej]

quote:

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We have decided to let the maintenance expire

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Note to self:

things not to say on a mastercam forum.

 

I have a theory of a theory---Matt berube is actually a top secret mastercam sales rep spy that wanted to get us all fired up.

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

If you guys didn't have this thread there'd be nothing but work to do. You ought to be thanking me !

[Müřlıń®]

Ahhh I C.

 

quote:

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It is my understanding that it was delayed because

CNC Software felt they needed Machine and Control Defs to get MATTS right.

---

That might not be a bad Idea

 

Sounds like an expensive machine to have a crash on....

[DrewG]

Gcode, when we purchased our 4 seats of Mastercam, we went thru training for mill level 1 and 3 as well as solids. We used Mastercam for about a year in anticipation of their MATTS release. When it finally became clear that Mastercam was "shelving" their MATTS program, we were left with a $552,000.00+ piece of equipment, and no software to run it. We purchased Mastercam in early February/March and was told by several resellers(and at EASTEC) about "how Mastercam's MATTS program would be available by years end, and how it was going to be superior to anything on the market, etc..". Our Mill/Turn was scheduled to come in by years end. So we used Mastercam for our milling and turning machines, and read the various MATTS updates in the Mastercam "newspaper" stating how it was developing in co-operation with two companies, one in CT and the other in Mass, etc... It sounded great!! Than about September CNC Software drops the bomb, MATTS will be shelved as we work on X. I'm not the only company that was put in a real bad position. I can offer you a list of several, as we were all banking on running our multi-tasking machines using Mastercam. But as Steve Bartland of CNC Software stated to me in a very heated conversation one day "that's the software business, you can't do anything about it".

Well what it forced me to do was make a decision, use Mastercam for some of my machines, and another CAM system for others. I did not want to have my programmers forced to learn and use several different CAM software. It becomes a problem when you have a small shop and programmers have to be able to program several different machines. On top of that, maintenance fee's are another issue using two or more CAM systems. This did force us to look at alot of other CAM software on the market, and we have found after spending a considerable amount of time using each, that in almost every case, the competitors software was as good or better than Mastercam. Each, including Mastercam, had their advantages and disadvantages. It depends upon the type of machining your planning to do, the importence of Tech support, ease of learning, etc.. I will never state anything that isn't true about Mastercam, positive or negative. I will however offer my opinion whenever someone asks a question concerning various cam systems, maintenance, or Multi-tasking questions. I have alot of firsthand experience in these area's and if I can save someone the "trials and tribulations" that I have been thru, than so be it.

So, in the end, Yes, we did use Mastercam V9.1 for sometime.

[DrewG]

Crazy--Unless you've spent upwards of a year or more actually using Edgecam, Esprit, UG, and Gibbs, your arguement is baseless and has no merit. You put down a competitors product without ever using it. I've used all of the above recently and paid for training as well. When you've done that we can have an educated conversation and disagree about hard facts.

[gcode]

Drew,

I readily admit that you got the short end of a very smelly stick. Your decision to keep your

shop all on one software is a vailid one which means you've pretty much eaten 4 seats of Mastercam. I would be angry too.

 

That being said, I do some pretty trick mill-turn

stuff with Mastercam, V9 was good and X is even better.

 

I also agree that many softwares can do some things better than Mastercam, Catia V5 is freaking

awesome once you get past the sticker shock and

the Mount Everest learning curve.

 

I do disagree with your overall assessment of Mastercam. I continue to believe it is the best

all round CAD/CAM software available.

My brief search through the wants adds confirms that opinion. There are many CAD/CAM packages

who are working hard to knock MC off its throne.

The rocky X rollout has not helped either.

[crazy^millman]

Wow so I guess that being an expert running your 9 axis machine in week goes out the window huh? I have used Gibbs back in 98 for about 1-1/2 years. I personally did not like the fact that it takes liberty doing things selceting tools and making toolpaths it thinks are right to a partical application. With that said I have no experience using it today and if I was hired at a company where that is all they had guess what I would figure out how to make it work or buy Mastercam myself which in 2 job I was offered in the past I was willing to do to work there. I would love ot learn UG but seeing how most companies are not going ot poney up the money for atleast 6 weeks of training to do what I can od in Mastercam to good with I see that going out the window. Edgecam is a prdouct I have not personally used but a good friend of mine who does alot of molds swaer by it for that but for his multiaxis work decided to use Mastercam after edgecam for many year so think i will take his direction on that one.

 

Now a educated dicussion I would have to have one first right. Again if you do not use Mastercam no matter how much training you have had can you honselty says it is worthless just becuase it at this point does not fill your needs? Now I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but atleast I can make chips on 5 axis equipment that cost $7,000,000 and $3,000,000 and also modify post to run these machines so in my book that counts for something!!!

 

I was only making the point with the cars that looks are not everything or that others software suck. To base Mastercam sucking becuase they just went to windows based software and their looks is off base in my book.

[Guest]

quote:

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Crazy--Unless you've spent upwards of a year or more actually using Edgecam, Esprit, UG, and Gibbs, your arguement is baseless and has no merit. You put down a competitors product without ever using it. I've used all of the above recently and paid for training as well. When you've done that we can have an educated conversation and disagree about hard facts.

---

DrewG,

 

The resources available here are far and above any that you will find on any other software developers online forum. Yet, for almost 3 years now you have come here and continually bellyached about how you got screwed and how you are going to buy nearly every piece of software under the sun. I'm sorry you feel you got screwed in your initial purchase, I can't say you did or did not, I was not there.

 

You are quite obviously not here to help and you are apparently not here looking for help, as none of us know anything and thus cannot have an educated discussion with you.

 

So why exactly are you on this forum, if for neither of the above?

[Greg VN]

We as experienced users of MasterCam know what we have and know what it can do. Does it really matter that not every body thinks of it as we do?

One thing good about having different opinions is there is a lot to consider and a lot to learn.

[betts]

Can't really say I would be any better about holding a grudge than DrewG after what he has been thru. I am also certain CNC software knew there would be people in his position and had to make a business decision that they believed would xxxx off the fewest customers. Sometimes life is like that. Not making any excuses for CNC, like I said I would be burned for a long time. I also would never allow my future ability to put work out be controlled by one (any) company, and I would always have a back-up plan for what I would do if "company X" didn't deliver.

 

But I think it might be time to get over it, and no I don't have a problem with anyone throwing accolades on any other software, just try not to do it out of spite, but out of a spirit of informing. So if all you speak is the truth, not embellished, then you are certainly welcome to relay your story. Just don't expect others to respond in a positive manner insdie of this forum, that should be easy to understand.

my02

[DrewG]

Where in my posts do I say: "Mastercam is worthless". I have not said that, nor have I stated it's the greatest, latest, nothing can beat it, nothing can top it, it's head's and tail's above the rest, if you use any other CAM system your using an inferior product.

If anyone states anything positive about another CAM system, or anything negative about Mastercam here, get your "flame suit" out. I'm not touting any ONE particular CAM system, however I do believe that all of the above mentioned CAM systems can do as good a job as Mastercam in most circumstances, and better in others. But by no means are any of them so far behind Mastercam the way alot of people here make it seem. I guarantee if you took the time to learn some of these systems you would come to the same conclusion. But without any experience using any of these CAM systems LATELY, you cannot offer an educated opinion. It's all one sided, and has no merit. I do not go around bashing Mastercam. I only offer my experiences and opinions from what I've actually seen and done. If I see a post concerning multi-tasking, mill-turn, or various other CAM systems, you bet I'm gonna post my experience. Hopefully it will help someone out. I haven't seen too many responses from anyone else here when anyone asks a question concerning mill turns. And you know what, there's more and more of them everyday. I guarantee some of you are going to be put in a similar situation soon, as these Mill-Turns are going to be one of our best defenses against work going over to China.

[Müřlıń®]

.....and John delievers a hard hook, right to the clusters.....ouch , that had to hurt.....specially after the body slam by Crazy...Drew regroups....film at 11:00

 

But seriously....

 

It wouldn't be the first time someone has went out and bought a piece of equipment that they couldn't use.

 

I think I did that a couple times....

 

Not to the tune of 500g's though...I only lost 20 or 30k, I got lucky....or semi unlucky however you want to look at it.

 

But Drew has a right to voice his opinion meh thinks....

 

 

quote:

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as these Mill-Turns are going to be one of our best defenses against work going over to China.

---

Unless the machine tool builders start selling them to China after they take our money

[betts]

Well I would have to disagree with you, DrewG, on the statement that I can't give an "educated" answer to any of your questions, because I don't currently use any other CAM product. I do have Solid Edge, and it still kicks MC-X in some areas of CAD, with my admitedly limited X experience. But I have "test driven" many other softwares, and when I ask the person selling it if it will do something, and they say "no", I don't need to run the software to prove them right, because I AM EDUCATED.

 

Truth is, I don't have a need for mill/turn, and I don't currently have a 5-axis, so I don't miss those things. But MC still has limitations, always has, always will, just like every other CAD/CAM package on the market. We all just decide based on our needs, as you have.

[crazy^millman]

I did take look just too make sure I did read it right. I do see me being funny (maybe could be taken to the point of ONECNC is worthless even though I did not comment on about buy 4 seats of Mastercam and putting it on the shelf((to me if you buy soemthing and do not use it and make it known you do not use 4 of something you have bought you then in my uneducated mind deem it worth nothing of vaule agian that is just me))with ONECNC I olny used their word again topic of converstaion that got started here) and like the fun I was making which you in my mind prove by spending a year reasearching all of this software you have that no matter they claim you can being doing 5 axis in 5 minutes it is a bunch of BS again I am using your educated year of trials to make that un-educated idea. Can they make parts I say yes all cam packages can make parts so can Bob-Cad. So do I as foreman stop many years of invesment over what in our case amounts to .23% of yearly budget becuase of Mastercam's maintence stop using it and switch.

 

Hum let me see I can have all 12 seats put on the self and get ONECNC which is says in 5 mintues will do all our 5 axis stuff and is cheaper or do I stay with Mastercam now since I am unducated in other software what decision would you make?

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

Decision about what ?

 

Is there a question in there ?

 

ROFLMFAO

[crazy^millman]

Mark got to remember i is unejumcated.

[DrewG]

Crazy--Not for nothing, but you ought to use my post to educate yourself in typing, word use, spelling, and so forth. I cannot understand a damn word of your last post!! I don't believe there's a sentence that's not a runon, fragment, or, doesn't have a mispelled word in it. Come on, is this your way of being funny? If so, hat's off, you've won!!

[crazy^millman]

Yeah Math was always my strong point not spelling, grammer, or things that did not have anything to do with machining. I am trying to always be funny in my mind though most never gte it which is fine by me. I did have one point it that putting something on the shelf to never use can be understood as it is worthless. Run on sentence fragment call it what you will but in my mind speaks volumes about what you think of Mastercam. I in my humor was pointing out the ONECNC makes some very unrealistic claims and with you trying out all of these different Cad/Cam packages I would think agree that doing 5 axis work in 5 mintues is not going to happen. Maybe I am wrong but I would be hard pressed to trust it.

[DrewG]

I 100% agree with you concerning Onecnc if they claim "5 axis in 5 minutes"!!! If that were the case every other CAM manufacturer would be out of business.

I never would make a statement that Mastercam is worthless. Sitting on my shelf may be a waste of my money, however it's not the same as stating "Mastercam is worthless". I believe that all of the above CAM systems are very close to each other, and that each of them have their positive and negative aspects. Buying one over the other should be based on the strong area's of that particular CAM system and the type of work you do, ala Multi-tasking, 5-axis, mold, highspeed, etc.. I cannot and will not say anyone of them including Mastercam IS the best, period. I'm sure we have all seen something or somethings in another CAM system and stated "wow, I wish I could do that", or "why doesn't my CAM system offer that". I did in everyone of the above systems I looked at. Hell, I felt after using all of them I could build the Ultimate CAM system by combining all the unique qualities of each into a brand new system.

[crazy^millman]

quote:

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Hell, I felt after using all of them I could build the Ultimate CAM system by combining all the unique qualities of each into a brand new system.

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This is one that we both can agree on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DrewG]

I believe all of us CAD/CAM users have felt that way at one time or another. Peace!!!!

[crazy^millman]

It is all good here. Life is way to short to worry about the little stuff.

 

[Greg Williams]

I guess I am a little late to this one, But I too have felt DrewG's Pain.

 

At the end of the day there are Horses for Courses and and it is all about finding the right nag for your shops needs.

 

Unfortunatly this is a long winded and time consuming process.