tool numbers

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Lathe Fanuc post

My threader is T0707

Copy from one toolpath group to another and it changes the tool number to T0714

Crashed the machine destroying a thousand dollar center and shoving the tailstock around a bit. Hit the tailstock at 1400ipm

Ask me how I feel about this.....

Why the HELL does it do this. There is no reason on earth why the software should change an offset number. None.

 

Now I'm down. I got a PISSED customer. I have to get another center for the machine adn most likely have to get the repair guy in here for a couple thousand dollars

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I'm probably just venting but someone ought to change this. This is just flat dangerous

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

Jim

I had a lathe job yesterday, changed the corner radius in the groove bottom on the mcx file and regenerated the path and the feed rate changed to IPM 200 instead of IPR .002, needless to say it went un noticed.

[?Mark]

quote:

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Copy from one toolpath group to another

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I understand copy as an exact "image" if you will of the original. Mastercam obviously looks at it a little differently The moment you copy a toolpath it reloads defaults either from tool or from toolpath library...

I've been complaining about this for a while now in several threads ...

[Thee Dragracer1951]

This needs to change. It just cost me about $3000

The tool came out of my tool library and just put it in the toolpath op. copied the op nad that changed the tool number. I have NO idea where offset 14 came from. It's not in my tool lib. I do not have anything added to the tool numbers in the machine def.

This is beyond me as to why it does this but it's dangerous as Hell.

 

 

Oh, I also forwarded this to QC.

Just doin my part...

now that I've calmed down a little.

[Ployd]

Sorry to hear about that Jim! Been there.

 

Bill

[Colin Gilchrist]

Jim,

 

Are you familiar with creating Zip2Go files? If you can create one and put it on the FTP, I'll try and take a look. There is a setting in the Control Def. that allows you to "add" a value to the tool number, or use the tool's values. I'm not making excuses for Mastercam, it shouldn't have changed on you. I'd like to do some testing though and see if I can duplicate this behavior so we can figure out how to avoid it.

 

Thanks,

[ToolMan184]

Jim,

 

Just make sure you pay your maint. when its due. Stuff like what happened to you just CHAPS my a$$. How can anyone expect CUSTOMERS to continue paying for something that does not work as described. Maybe grounds for some legal recourse.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Colin

Yes I'm familiar with the Z2G files. I'll see if I can get it up there.

I do know that my machine def is set up to not add anything to T numbers.

this only happens when I copy from one toolpath group to another

Toolman

I don't think I'd even consider anything legal. It's really my fault that I didn't catch it. But I'd sure like it fixed.

[Bill Martel]

Dragster,

I'm sorry to hear about your crash. I tried a quick simulation of your scenario and the numbers transposed fine. We really need you to do a zip to go file so we have all of the parameters and files you are using.

Although this site is randomly monitored by CNC Software employees we do not own this site. So for us to properly address a problem of this magnitude we need you to send it to us at [email protected].

Bill

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I'll send you one in just a second

And I do appreciate it.

[cajahawa]

The same thing happens when you when you change the tool numbers in the edit common parameters page and then later try to edit the tool in any way. What I've been doing is whenever I change anything with the tool. I always click on the tool number that updates the offsets. I know your pain though. A couple times, I've tried sending a tool 10 inches through the part, because of that bug.

[Chris Rizzo]

Yes I have that repeatably happen..copying ops and having the offset # change. Jim why weren't you running at 5% rapid for a new program? Change ANYTHING in a lathe toolpath and you never know what else is going to get jacked.

 

5% rapid, feed rate 10%, spindle and 50%, and an eye riveted to distance-to-go. Single block and op stop usually too. That's even for ops that have run before. ONE parameter change in a lathe part and it's no telling what kind of domino effect happened; case in point.

 

Also have had ipm change to ipr, esp with drills imported from mill libraries. nothing like drilling at 5 inches per revolution.

 

I'd say a good mcx lathe programmer is someone who can safely navigate though a minefield. I'd consider myself a reasonably good lathe programmer, mainly because I've seen enough idiosyncrasies and am thus incredibly cautious.

 

[ 01-18-2008, 04:55 AM: Message edited by: Chris Rizzo (Italian' stylin') ]

[Colin Gilchrist]

Jim,

 

I feel your pain man. I've had Mastercam bite me many times over the years. I also know exactly what Chris is saying about learning Mastercam's bugs and a way to deal with them. Have you considered Vericut? It pays for itself pretty quickly. I've been learning how to set it up for our programming group at work for the past year. It is truely awesome software. I just had a problem, literally tonight, where an operator set an offset incorrectly and some holes were miss located on a part. I was able to simulate the program perfectly, use the Auto Diff feature to compare the engineering model to the cut stock model, and verify that the program was perfect. I finally had to convince the operator to run a test piece and it came out perfect, just like Vericut showed me. We never do a dry-runs anymore. There is just no need with Vericut. I wouldn't trust any other solution unless it ran the actual NC program. Shoot me an email if you have any questions about simulation software.

 

[email protected]

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Chris

I did come to the part in 5% rapid but did not look at distance to go. My bad.

Colin

I have MCU because I've had some strange mill code get by me. I look at lathe code pretty closely now though.

I think I may need to rethink my position that vericut is too expensive. Although, verification software wouldn't have cought this one... it was a machine offset issue caused by the tool offset number being incorrect.

I just missed it.

Anyway, I'm going to send a file off to QC this morning if I can find time to get it done.

[Tim Johnson]

Vericut WILL catch that kind of offset error if you have the machine/control set up correctly.

[Todd84]

??? doesn't this happen to everyone? If you copy you have to double check if you change anything involving a toolpath or tool you have to go back and double check everything. Doesn,t it work like that in mill? We use delcam for our machine centers I have never tried doing anything in just mill.

[calnet42]

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about.

Tool #'s, feeds, speeds, you can't trust mastercam to not change them. There should be a "lock" button on all these values in each op, right next to each one, like the lock you can have on line lenght, X,Y,or Z. lets all send in this request. Maybe we could see it in X3?

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

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There should be a "lock" button on all these values in each op,

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i like the sound of that. double click on a feed/speed/offset # etc. and it turns red effectively locking it.

[Roger Peterson]

When you have problems with the offsets, feeds, and speeds changing, are you copying from one "toolpath group" to another, or from one "machine group" to another? If you are copying from one machine group to another, do the machine groups have the same machine definition?

[calnet42]

Copying from one machine group to another is one part of the issue.

 

But, my big problem is that one tool will often need different feedrates for different cuts.

 

I don't want to have to make a copy of the tool for each new operation just to change the feedrate.

 

And, if you have one tool and use it in many operations with different feedrates for each, if you change the feed, speed, offset, or any parameter in the tool you will change the feeds and speeds of all operations which use that tool.

 

Also, the choices in the Machine group properties, tool settings page (from material,from defaults,user defined) are all "global".

 

I need to control the feeds and speeds at each operationon an individual basis.

[mike_f]

when I copy my lathe op.s from one machine group to another, my offsets don't change but my tool numbers do. even if I use (1) tool for 4 op.s it will come out as t12, t13, t14 , t15 , for example. If I delete those op.s and copy the same op.s again, it will be t16, t17, t18, t19, delete and re-copy again...t20, t21, t22, t23 ?????........ etc. etc.

[Bryan Johnson]

one option is to hard code the post so that offsets are always tied to the tool number. This goes for lathe and mill H/D values.

On the rare occasion where the offset is different than the tool, it is easy enough to change at the machine.

They are a lot to keep up with in mastercam, and considering what can happen when they are wrong, it is not worth the risk (IMHO).