Thinking about a new lathe

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I have a Haas SL10 with barfeed, it's given me enough issues that it's on the way out the door. I also have a 2006 Daewoo 220a Lynx 2 axis lathe that is just great. Strong, reliable, fast and accurate. I get great service from CNC Sales in Snohomish Wa. I'm thinking about a new lathe and getting rid of the Haas. I'd like to get into live tooling and possibly sub spindle work. Finding the work is not an issue really, but this would be more of a production machine. I would like to see larger qtys than I have in the past, to save a few dollars on setup. I was originaly thinking about a live tooled version of what I have now. But in talking to the sales guy, I've been led to think about a Y axis machine. I'd like your opinion of Daewoo Y axis machines if I could. I'm also thinking about Mori, Okuma and (dare I say it?) Mazak. (I'm not a Mazatrol fan)

I'm also not convinced that I need a Y axis machine but I can certainly market the machine to that segment.

The Daewoo I'm looking at it a Puma 2000SY

What think you?

[TR Mfg.]

We have Miyano lathes here and like them. Live tool sub spindles, but no Y axis. I would at least give them a look if you are wanting a "production" type machine.

[Alvaro Gil - Cimquest-inc.com]

Love Daewoos, I think they offer the greatest bang for the buck. They are very heavy and dependable. My shop has 3 lathes, very little problems since new. Two are 20 years old and the other 15.

[Goldorak]

i got a brand new okuma captain L370mw

 

barfeed ,c-axis ,sub,part catcher

 

and i really like it

 

precision in about .0001 to .0002

 

the p200 controller is awsome with a 17in touch screen

 

i don't run it a lot yet and still wait for a post so i dont know if mastercan is really effective with this machine

 

http://www.okuma.com/products/machines/lat...in_series/l370/

[horsepowered]

Get the Y axis, the increased ability is well worth the small amount of additional cost. Consider cutting a tight toleranced keyway along the od of a shaft, without the y axis you would need to use an axact sized endmill to finish the keyway, with Y axis use a smaller endmill and cut both sides of the keyway with wear comp to hold size. Without Y axis you could not drill above or below center on cross drilling toolpaths or perform threadmilling on the side of a part or mill flats that are not considered face contours. A mill turn machine without Y axis is just to limited.

[Guest]

Jim,

 

Here is how I see it at least.

 

The Daewoo by todays standards is a decent machine, however, it is not in the same as the other 3 you mentioned. I have a "love" of Moris, the Okumas are generally thought of as great machines as are the Mazaks. The "only" reason if I was buying I would not likely lean towards either of the last 2 is I am a fanuc guy, the Mazatrol and Okuma languages I don't like.

 

Machine for machine they're competitive, I have a personal like of a certain control.

 

JM2C

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I agree. I'd rather have a Mori. I have owned Okuma's in the past. Great machines. I have no problem with their controls. Well...at least the ones that I owned some years ago. I have not owned a live tooled one though.

I am also looking at Mori, but it is more money.

This isn't going to happen right now. Possibly in the next couple of months though. I'm STILL looking for a building.

[Tim Johnson]

If you tend to hang on to good machines you should think very hard about the Y axis. As you add and remove tooling blocks along with the occasional thump over time you're going to get wear on your turret and keeping the C axis on line will get more difficult. With the Y axis you can you your offsets for keeping the alignment.

[ReDEyZZ]

+1 for Daewoo and mori

, we have 5mazak lathes, 4 mazak mills, 1 daewoo lathe and a mori horizontal.The daewoo works well, lots of power ,decent bang for the buck.

The mori is my new fav. the mazak mills are nice , but we also have alot of drive issues, and electrical issues are popping up more frequently.

We are moving away from mazak's to mori's, we hope to get a mori lathe with live tooling in the near future.

[gcode]

Its a sure bet that if you buy a C axis lathe,

at some point you will wish it had a Y axis too.

Working with a C axis lathe is like working with one hand.. you always wish you had another.

[crazy^millman]

Prime example is our shop the owner got a used Okuma dual turret, but no Y axis. You can not really see the limits until it slap you in the face. I would never recommend to anyone to get a lathe with live tooling that did not have a Y axis, Dual or Quad turret and Y axis capabilities on all turrets. We have a Mazak SQT 200 SMY and that gets a lot of work over the Okuma dual turret just because of the Y axis.

 

As far as the Mazatrol part of it goes. I have used, Fanuc, Okuma, Haas, Mazak, Fadal, Semiens, and of them I like the Fanuc a lot, but really like the way the Mazak handles tools and simple on the machine programming tasks for good set-up people. I like to empower people on the to do task for setting up the machine. To me the Mazak is a job shop machine hands down. You got a production shop or you got a good balance of programmers to machines then Fanuc wins hands down. If you feel like you can never catch up or keep up then having something that allows people help you set up a machine and get it running with little help from you is a big plus and should be considered. We have 2 machines that have Mazatrol. Those our Integrex and SQT 200 MSY. Guess what those machine get set-up faster, eaiser and with less trouble than any other machines is the shop from what I have to do for them.

 

New machines are important choices. Looks at the work, look at the capability, look at the people, look at the support, and look at what you think you want to see for hours a day off the machine. Biggest thing tell who ever you get the machine from that a POST from IN-HOUSE must be in the deal.

[chris m]

I'm not completely sure, but you can probably get a Daewoo Y-axis machine for the same money as an Okuma or Mori without one. That being said, I have 11 Okuma lathes including a twin-turret with live tools and I absolutely love them. They are powerful, reliable, and deadly accurate all day long. The only thing that I really don't like is that the live-tool machine I have uses VDI40 toolholding, which sucks as far as rigidity goes, so if you can find a machine that uses a bolt-down toolholder I would weigh that in my decision.

 

C

[GoetzInd]

We have a Daewoo/Doosan Yaxis lathe w/ sub spindle. We have had no problems. Very accurate. Run lights out reliably.

 

Mike

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I'm going to try to get over town to have a look at one in the next wek or so.

Chris, You're right. Mori and Okuma are more money. Ialso full realize that you get what you pay for. I've had great results with my Daewoo though. I have long respected Mori, I've owned a few Okuma's. Both stout, accurate machines. The Okuma guy stopped by awhile ago and I told him what I had planned for the comming year. We'll see what he can offer. It'll be interesting.

When I talked to the Daewoo guys, I'm not sure I can get what I need for my Haas, so I may have to thinkn more creativly.

And Ron...That's an outstanding suggestion about a post from In House. Point well taken.

[Kevangel]

quote:

---

I'm STILL looking for a building.

 

---

They said on National news commercial is startin to sink like Homes. I know of a building that was renting for 1.5K month and "renter" shop moved out and they are desperate for a renter at 1K.. But I will buy a building when I move, at cheapo price.

[#Rekd™]

Hi Jim,

 

What sort of price range is the Daewoo in?

 

John Ford

[connormac]

We are having a new Leadwell T6 with bar feeder put in today. They seem to hold up OK. We have 3 other different size Leadwells and the only time we seem to have any problem with them is when some crashes them.

[mike_f]

I've had a Puma2000SY on the floor for 3 years. I've only had service in here once and it was for a Fanuc problem. I've got (4) Mazak mills and I'm thinkin' about gettin' the service guy his own office. that said, I also have a Mazak lathe that I've had very few problems with and A Mori that I never have any problems with. The Puma came with the Y axis and (2) full C axis', main and sub, we added an LNS barfeeder & the chip conv. and it was still less $ than a comparable Mori, Okuma or Mazak without those options. will it hold .0001 / .0002 all day ?....no, not without some help. Do I need it to ? no. I also did not like the VDI tooling on the other machines and if I remember correctly, the Daewoo was the only one of those four brands that I could put a live tool in any of the 12 turret stations.....to answer your question though, I would not buy a live tool machine without a Y axis unless it was going to do (1) specific job it's entire life that didn't need one........have fun

[MultiAxGod]

Without a doubt, the Mori is the tops if your looking for full live tooling C and Y. If you want to get more creative with complete finished parts, there is no substitute for the NT. I have been working with it for almost a year and am getting ready to do another turnkey AE job on 1 in Eugene, OR. However, McamX don't support it yet. Esprit is the partner that works (ugh!)

The Mazak is a good machine (although one of the two here just got bumped lightly and now the turret and tailstock is out, which makes me wonder how stout the machine really is) and right now I am programming them straight EIA, which is really standard Fanuc, without "some" of the new benefits of coding. The Mazatrol language is limited and you will only get to machine in certain ways, wether you like it or not. Thats why the co. where I am at now went to EIA, for more control over the cut.

Don't have any experience with the Daewoo so can't say. Miyano's and Ikegai's used to be great, but haven't worked with either one in quite awhile.

Always hated the OSP controls, but will submit that I haven't worked on one for more than 15 years. The machines themselves always seemed to be stout.

 

Just a simple man with a simple plan!

 

Mcam X2-MR2-SP1

Mill Level 3

Lathe Level 1

Solids

5 Axis

[Steve Hattori]

I'm with everyone whosays 'get the Y-axis'. We have Mazaks with and without the Y, and I am always swearing at the one without. Mazatrol is a very easy to use language, but very limited, and most milling we use Mastercam to post out EIA programs.

That said, we are in the process of getting rid of all Mazak equipment. New guy crashed an MSY and It will be three weeks down by the time Mazak service gets here... It seems if you aren't a really big shop, service is hard to come by...And lately, we seem to be having a lot of elctrical component failures. Drives, A/D converters, power supplies,

and neither Mazak or Mitsubishi has them in stock, new OR used. Have to send in your old one for repair. FWIW..

Practical machinst forum has more info on all the machines you are looking at, good and bad.

Tough decision, good luck! And go for the Y!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

A lathe without 2 turrets, a Y axis AND a Sub Spindle, is like a Horizontal with a 20 tool magazine and NO rotary Axis... why even bother.

 

If you're going to get a lathe, GET A LATHE, not some stripped down, low horse-power, functionless boat anchor.

 

Sure you'll pay more for C,Y, AND a Sub Spindle but if you don't, YOU WILL PAY MORE by way of secondary ops, more setups, etc...

 

JM2C

[chris m]

To me a one-turret subspindle machine has severely limited functionality unless you have something specific in mind; very limited on tooling options.

 

C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You get almost NO cycle time avantage with a single turret subspindle machine because no matter what, you're only in the cut on a single spindle instead of both. With two turrets and a sub, generally speaking (with proper load balancing) you will make your part 2x as fast.

 

Don;t forget the bar feeter AND parts catcher. You want to run un manned... it's the ONLY way to compete.

[Mick]

But if itsn't a cycle time advantage you are after (sure, I know, we are always after a cycle time advantage..), there is nothing wrong with purchasing a subspindle single turret machine, as in the case of the Multus we have purchased.

 

We purchased the Multus to take the load off our MH40 horizontal in one of our departments. As a bonus, it also takes some of the load off the other two lathes in the same department. Instead of going Lathe -> Mill, the part goes on to the Multus, is First Opped (turning and milling) then second opped (turning and milling) then into the parts catcher.

 

In this case, the Multus was the ideal option, and it was a LOT cheaper than comparable machines from other brands. And the OSP controls are nice. I've always liked them.

[Kyle Waters]

Not knowing what capacity you are looking at, have you looked into the Mori NZ series? I don't think any other company is offering dual turret, dual Y axis option right now.