Solids Yes or No??

[pactec]

Hello all...

 

Damir here,long time lurker first time poster and yes, a Mastercam reseller(wet coast of Canada).

 

I have two rectangular solids that represent soft jaws. When I need to flip a part and re-clamp it, I'll merge the jaws into my drawing and remove the solid part from my solid jaws so that I can pre-machine the jaws. This allows me to see where I'll need relief in the pocket of the jaws because I can also verify my path against the original STL file that I got from the solid.

 

I also have a base plate that looks like swiss cheese because it's been drilled from both sides. Every time I need to drill into that plate I'll merge it in and check for interferances. If I look at the part in top view, I can see only the holes that are on the top face rather than a jumble of arcs or having to switch between levels or colors or attributes or any other work-around that you could come up with.

 

There are many more uses for solids, perhaps if we asked for those it might help all parties concerned. This is a very well moderated forum I would hate to see it turn into that other one that's only good for the car-wreck effect once in a while. We are all Mastercam users, a user posted a question as to the usefulness of Solids another user posted a reply that he couldn't justify the price. Apart from the "issues" that was his reply. I've posted a reply to that reply, this is the way it's supposed to be. This is, in effect, a break room for a huge programming force. Once in a while someone HAS to get cheesed (fact of life), it's up to all of us to bring them back down and concentrate on the core issue.

 

Mastercam has always been a customer driven product, they value feedback from their users for obviously worthwile reasons. This is not a focus group of a half dozzen people who tell them what they need to do, this is potentially a 50 grand plus group of people who tell CNC what they need. Ask a question and I'm positive they'll respond favourably, done it many times.

 

I hope I've covered the core issue enough and I'm done with my rant so let's have some more real world examples for Solids.

 

Cheers Everyone...

[Scott Bond]

Thanks pactec

quote:

---

Once in a while someone HAS to get cheesed (fact of life)

---

cheesed off upset, annoyed, ticked off They were cheesed off when I said you wouldn't pay them.

 

This Forum is the best single source of Mastercam info that there is .IMHO

[Trevor Bailey]

I am putting a file on cadcam's site that is a solid vise and table of a fadal 15xt with location holes I use for my fixtures. It is in V9 format. Having these in a solid for for the work that I do is a life(time) saver.

 

The file name will be 15xt bed with vise.mc9 in the solids folder.

 

Enjoy,

 

[ 05-28-2002, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Trevor ]

[Tony]

In Chicagoland Grasshopper say's :

You will need a Touchdown,a Fin and a goose egg

for a Solid investment.....

 

[ 05-28-2002, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Tony ]

[jspangler]

Hi

Well thanks for all the responses. It was cool to be able to see EVERYONES perspective on the use of Solids as i was lost in justifying the expense. It seems that If I can save time by visualizing the parts and have something to show a customer, before machining, it's worth the $$ to save the hassle. SInce I don't work off prints, being able to actually see the part seems like it will help what I do a bunch, too. Any resellers offering any specials I can take advantage of???

 

thanks

 

John

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Just so that people know... I AM NOT an MC Reseller. I do not get money for giving props to MC or any reseller for that matter. I have no more vested interest in Mastercam than any other average user(save for the fact we would like them to continue to do well so the product will continue to develop and continue to improve). Our company has 6 seats of MC at our facility, and a few others in the 4 other plants we have.

 

My opinions come from my experiences with the product(s) and CNC Software. CNC has been responsive to my input as a Beta Tester and when I identify a bug I always get a reply (sometimes I am doing something wrong and sometimes there are bugs) with either confirmation of a bug or the correct way to approach something.

 

With that said, the Solids add-on has been a tremendous time saver. On one particular project that comes to mind, Solid Modeling saved me about 40 hours vs. Surface Modeling. I'll say that it paid for itself with that one job. Even "run of the mill" 2-D parts have toolpath advantages in Solids.

 

As for CNC's pricing policies, you'll not find a policy more........ economical. Mr. Davis, if you choose not to update, that's not a problem because if you see a later version and like it, you'll pay the same price to update then as you would now. Not so with SmurfSCAM, Gibbs and ASSociates, UG, CATIA, NCL, etc... ad infinitum. Whith their pricing schemes you pay now or you pay DEARLY later, You better keep up that maintenance too (mind you you'll still need to pay for updates) because they'll stick it to you even worse. So, with that said, your standpoint that pricing policies make MC not a good value(bad grammer I know) is a bad point and you should reasess(sp?) that one and compare with what other products that are out there. Sure they may include solid modeling at "no charge" but rest assured you pay for it somewhere because there is no such thing as a free lunch, you're paying for it somewhere.

 

So, you have to pay extra for Solids? You want to bitch and moan????? Bitch and Moan to Parasolid!!! They are the ones that require software companies to pay a licensing fee for each and every seat of software that goes out that uses the Parasolid Kernel. That's not CNC's fault. So maybe you can go cry to Parasolid about THEIR "Cynical Policy". They are responsible for the policy in the first place. Personaly, I believe that Parasolid is entitled to return on their investment and they should be able to collect royalties. They have added valuable features to may software programs by allowing the software companies to license the Parasolid Kernel rather than develop their own which woudl make the software cost more, it woudl sap development resources, etc... not to mention interoperability. I can share data with almost every CAD/CAM/CAE package out there because most all will read a Parasolid File.

 

In closing, Solids is an excellent value at full price, and a steal at a price reduction.

 

JM2C....again

 

[ 05-29-2002, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Jon,

 

Call CAD/CAM Consulting. They are offering a special rate right now for solids. (805)375-7676 ask for Stefan and he'll hook you up. I can't quote you the actual price here but how does 1/2 price sound? That's the e-mail I got a few days ago.

[cadcam]

John your dealer is as james quoted and we do have a special going at this time.

 

you can use the # james gave you and if you change the first 3 #'s to 888 it will be toll free.

 

[ 05-30-2002, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: cadcam ]

[biss03]

James,

 

you say you have no vested interest because you are not a reseller of mastercam. You may not get paid directly from Mastercam, but if they were to shut down, would you still have a job? My understanding is that you are a Mastercam instructor, therefore you are getting paid to teach Mastercam (or are you doing it for free!!?). I don't understand why everyone is being critical of one persons opinion of solids. After all, the person who started the thread asked for just that - peoples opinion (not just positive ones) of solids. would that be fair to him to only allow positive opinions and not give a true representation of what people think. I personally have not been able to justify spending the money on solids at this time. But based on what i've read on here, i am planning on working it into the budget in the future.

 

Please don't be offended by my remarks, i'm just giving you an honest assesment. Basically i'm trying to say "Can't we all just get along"

 

I think the webmaster hit it on the head with his remarks about the internet in general

 

Thanks to EVERYONE who continues to give their best advice for everone who wants to see mastercam survive.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

biss03,

 

quote:

---

you say you have no vested interest because you are not a reseller of mastercam. You may not get paid directly from Mastercam, but if they were to shut down, would you still have a job?

---

.

 

Yes, I would still have a job. Even the one teaching. I am relatively intelligent and I have more than one way to make a decent living. The teaching, is my way to give back to an industry that has done a lot for me personally and financially. No, I do not do it for free but I do not make nearly what I am worth teaching, but that's ok, if I couldn't use the money I'd do it for free.

 

quote:

---

I don't understand why everyone is being critical of one persons opinion of solids.

---

It's more about the tone than his poinion. His opinions are fine, we're all entitled to our opinions BUT, when he attacked Mastercam's pricing policy, that's when I had to step up and educate him on the error of his opinion, and the reason for the the price of the add-aon. Believe me, it's nothing personal. Bryan has contributed in great ways to this forum and I hope he continues to do so.

 

quote:

---

Please don't be offended by my remarks, i'm just giving you an honest assesment. Basically i'm trying to say "Can't we all just get along"

---

Of course we can, and we do. Remember, this forum is a cross-section of society. There will be argeuments, disagreements, heated discussions, agreements, basically all the things that take place during a duscussion at a restaraunt, bar or pub. There is one MAJOR difference here, we can't see each other's faces and that sometimes makes for difficult interpretation of the true message trying to be conveyed. As for "Can't we all just get along", we do for the most part. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe 1-2% of the posts get a little on the heated side, the rest of the time it's pretty mellow.

 

Thanks for your well thought out post.

[Scott Bond]

I am in total agreemeant with you biss03

quote:

---

I think the webmaster hit it on the head with his remarks about the internet in general

---

All opinoins should be heard even any possitive ones from brother James.

(IMHO)He is not giving monetarily motivated opinions,

he just a very loyal M.C. user.

[McRae]

To return to the initial question - 99.9% 2D

 

Xform,Translate,Z-.25,Join,Done

 

There, I just saved you the cost of the solids add on.

 

If it were my money, I would keep it and buy my wife something.

[d0gFartz]

What are you cutting boxes?

[Kenneth Potter]

Mastercam is not Mastercad?solids & with Program coding & application style it NEVER WILL BE !....

 

The cad side of Mastercam cannot hope improve untill it dumps its current Medieval program coding & application style. Its not true windows Period !

 

I have been informed that VERSION 10 is a true modern windows apps That open up the Cad /solids to unbeliveable power. That will end The complains many of us have.

 

((((((((((((((Solid at at price )))))))))))))))

 

GET it....its cheap...you have to learn solids someday anyway....Get your feet wet !

 

Just my Opinion

 

Thanks

[gary dunn]

speaking of solids, is there a way to import a solid into 8.1.1 as surfaces ? sorry, i can't convince my employer that solids or V9 is needed.

dangit.

[Roger]

I would like to add my $$ worth. About five years ago, I decided to learn mastercam and took some classes, and even purchased my own seat, mill level 1, and lathe. I don't have a company, I made this purchase so that I could use MC and learn more to get a better job as a programer. Currently the place I work has MC level 7.2 mill entry, and 7.2 lathe. I have been writing programs using my seat for this company. And I have been buying (with my own money) the upgrades since version 6.13 (my first seat).

 

I received the email offering 1/2 solids and worked out a deal with my employer where the shop will buy me solids. Some of you might think that I'm crazy spending my own money on MC, But how many shops out there will hire a programer with no experience?

 

So you that complain about the cost, I ask you, who is buying it? The company (which makes money, by saving valuable time in programing) or is it coming out of your pockets!

 

Just my $$ worth.

[gcode]

Roger,

I have a similar story. I worked for a company that used brand T cam software. After watching the want adds for a couple of years I realized

that being a brand T expert was not going to keep

me employeed or my family feed.

I took MC 5.5 at the local comunity college and

bought a seat of Level 1 Mill and lathe. I started using it at my job and at home for other

shops. The type of work I was getting forced me to upgrade to level 2 then solids and finally level 3. I'm running a full seat of MC9 now.

I have good job in very hard times and I have no doubt I'd be unemployeed had I stuck with brand T.

A lot of people look at me like I'm nuts for buying a real copy when you can get cracked MC for $50, but thats another story

[Kenneth Potter]

Rodger

 

You have a great outlook & additude! you bought your own seat of Mastercam And made yourself more Employable.

 

quote:

---

, But how many shops out there will hire a programer with no experience?

---

Not many !....Buying your own SEAT OF MASTERCAM PUTS YOU IN THE DRIVERS SEAT!

 

You also by-pass the shop politics & Games.

You can hone your cam skills 24/7

you dont have to kiss Butt to have seat time !

And.....and...and....

 

If one can spend 5K on a Snap on tool box & 10K on the tools & gages to fill that tool box then Buying a seat of mastercam would be just another tool that can open up many doors for you!

[Jerry Bichsel]

I would just like to respond to Bryan Davis on a couple of points:

 

1. You are complaining about MasteCAM Solids and the fact that some of MasterCAM's CAD functions are behind other CAD vendors products. Stop and read the name of the product - MasterCAM not MasterCAD. The emphasis is and should be CAM.

 

2. Having used MaseterCAM and Cadkey since 1989 and suffered through Cadkey for Windows, CK97, CK98 and CK99, I am confused as to how you could recommend that product line with their history (since Baystate) of lack of developement of FastSurf FastSolids or CKSolids, excessive delays of promised releases, lack of any real support in the form of updates/patches, lost data, locked files, "bad collective" messages and promises of "wait for the next release", etc. etc. I jumped ship in '97 and went with SolidWorks and have enjoyed designing again.

 

3. Cadkey's user forum is highly restrictive in what can and cannot be said about the product and service thereof. I have been kicked off their forum twice for being critical of the product and their support staff, no more critical than you have been of Mastercam, yet Cadkey will not accept criticism of their product nor staff.

 

4. I do not 'play' with MasterCAM. I use it for injection mold programming, 4 and 5-axis work. I do not expect it to be the perfect CAD package as that is not it's intent. CAM is CAM, CAD is CAD. If you expect MasterCAM to be the be-all, end-all of CAD, you have misunderstood what each means. If you expect Cadkey's Keymill to reach anywhere near MasterCAM's ability, dream on.

 

And remember, MasterCAM Solids is a relatively new feature. It has only been with us for a couple of years and gets better with each update/release.

 

By the way, how many new releases/updates does Cadkey promise? How many do they actually deliver? How many do they deliver when promised?

 

I rest my case.

[Slick]

Man, I've honestly never been so intrigued by a forum topic like this one has made me. I have a couple of opinions on the topic, and after reading everybody else's I figured I'd put in mine.

 

1. I think it honestly boils down to personal preference. If you think you are being as efficient as you possibly can be in the 2-D world, then stick with it.

 

2. Whether or not MasterCAM Solids is the best it can possibly be isn't very relevant. What's relevant is that MasterCAM is constantly advancing itself in the CAD/CAM world. If MasterCAM is the software you choose to use for your business, it would only make sense that you would want your business to meet it's fullest potential. Which in this case would be your capability to program in solids. I'd rather have the potential to do work and choose to turn it down, than to miss out on getting work because I'm not capable of doing it.

[jspangler]

Hi

Thanks Everyone.

I ordered Solids and am waiting for it to be delivered. After reading all the responses from the forum, and people alot more experienced than me, It seems to be too good to pass up. The half off summer special also helped!!

 

Anyways, Thanks for all the help

 

John

 

PS. Note to JayK,:

Hardway told me to talk to you about suggestions for a new video card and monitor. He says Solids will be too much for the system I have now = WIn 2K Pro, P3, 256 ram, 32meg Nvidia card, 15" gateway monitor....

 

Thanks

[cadcam]

John Give me a call and I can go over it for you.

Im in the office at this time 661-295-7162 till 7pm tonight then after 10am tommorow.

 

I see you been talking to Scott.