Esprit and MasterCAM

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

living/working in New York... a.k.a. financial catastrophe capital of the world

---

New York = California in this regard, you guys just have better weather.

 

PS, threaded continued from locked thread.

 

JParis, this one I understand

[gcode]

for the record..

the company I was thinking of that

was in financial trouble was not

Esprit.

I'm pretty sure it was Cimitron that

bought Gibbs and is now struggling in

this down market.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Yes. Cimatron is in financial striaghts. At one point their stcik price was so low they were removed from the NASDAQ. I don;t know of they are still gone but...

 

I was never saying that DP was per se, I'm just saying there's too many ways to "cook the books" and nobody outside a company really knows a company's true financial health. That's all I was saying.

 

Of the CAM companies that are around, I would imagine DP is one of the ones that's not going anywhere.

 

JM2C

[Guest]

I can say, working at the CNC Booth last year at Eastec for a couple days, Esprit was diagonally across us. They were dead both days I was there.

 

Stray person here, stray person there, that was it.

[Joe788]

I was typing a reply right when JP locked the other thread (with good reason). It was about how fitting it was that a certain person's EMC alias was the same as the name of a very bad character from a great movie about prison.

 

 

That better JP?

[Guest]

TY

 

[BenK]

The thing I would like to know is why they don’t want to compete in the mill/turn area. If they are doing something in this area it would be nice to hear what they are doing. I guess I don’t understand why ART is so important but lathe goes unchanged. How many people really use ART?

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

I can say, working at the CNC Booth last year at Eastec for a couple days, Esprit was diagonally across us. They were dead both days I was there.

 

Stray person here, stray person there, that was it.

---

Marketing and product quality are certainly two VERY different issues. I see MC adds in every trade magazine I touch - I cannot remember one Esprit add.

 

It's like BMW and GM, I see lots of GM adds and little to no BMW adds, who do you think makes better cars

 

I have owned both and let's just say, I hope to not drive a GM anytime soon. Let's hope the economy does not change that for me

[Guest]

quote:

---

I cannot remember one Esprit add.

---

No $$$ for an advertising budget perhaps?

 

Point taken Dave but at a tool show, you DO get tire kickers. My point was they didn't have any or very few at least.

[Guest]

and for the record, I will concede, that if Synchronous Mill/Turn is something you need to do and need to see it automated, Esprit WILL do it, at this point in time Mastercam will not.

 

When it comes to the Mill and Wire product, I'll "turn" circles around an Esprit jockey ALL day long, even with the "issues" that do exist.

 

That's not hyperbole, it's a FACT, I have already done so.

 

If anyone has listened to me long enough, they know there are places where I believe the product needs improvement, I'll not re-list them here.

 

Yes, I work for a reseller but I also own my own seat which I purchased before coming to work here, so I like many others who spend or control the $$$ have a vested interest in product improvement.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

When it comes to the Mill and Wire product, I'll "turn" circles around an Esprit jockey ALL day long, even with the "issues" that do exist.

 

That's not hyperbola, it's a FACT, I have already done so.

---

Yep, all day every day that ends with "y"!

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

No $$$ for an advertising budget perhaps?

---

Perhaps, They are probably a smaller company than MC

 

quote:

---

Point taken Dave but at a tool show, you DO get tire kickers. My point was they didn't have any or very few at least.

---

Many people may have never heard of them and last year, well, let's just say not many were looking to spend $$$.

 

And for the record, MC does well for us in many, many ways. However, I just have no desire to add lathe when I already know the limitations. At some point we plan to add swiss turn capabilities and MC cannot provide a solution for that.

 

I will certainly admit I have a lot to learn in MC and I also have a lot to learn in Solidworks, but when I work in MC I find bugs and I also find myself getting frustrated with how the program handles many topics. On the other hand when I work in Solidworks, I find myself constantly make statements like "man, this is awesome software".

 

I have yet to find a bug in SW, and yes I know they are there but just not so obvious.

 

I also realize I have classified issues in MC as bugs when I was shown they are not. In most of those cases, while they may not be a true bug, those cases are also not examples of good software design.

 

I hope to find a CAM software that makes me feel as I do when I use Solidworks. We may soon see if that software is Esprit.

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

When it comes to the Mill and Wire product, I'll "turn" circles around an Esprit jockey ALL day long, even with the "issues" that do exist.

---

Depending on what’s important as a result, that statement may be debated. I absolutely have no doubt in your experience or abilities, BUT, IMO, that's a totally different issue than a good product.

 

I get the impression that you are doing as you should, learning the software as best as possible and making it work within the limitations. While I give you immense credit for that, I have a different perspective. Since we are fairly new to MC, it’s important to me that going forward it makes good sense. To be honest, MC was chosen here somewhat to get up and running quick (long story and not important for this discussion).

 

Now that we have something that does work we can look to better the solution, and that is my intentions and the plan I am executing.

[Craig Madsen from CM3D]

One of my brothers owns a shop in California - and another works for a 'startup' medical company.

 

Both shops, even though they are 'Mastercam shops', have purchased Esprit for their multi-axis lathe programming. When I was there a couple months ago, before they had even had any Esprit training, they were showing me what they could do with synchronous programming for their machines. There wasn't anything I could show them to compete (I was there doing training for 5-axis mill programming).

 

Hopefully, CNC will press ahead and get some version of a competent multi-axis lathe package out. They should have something.

[Guest]

quote:

---

learning the software as best as possible and making it work within the limitations.

---

Dave, every software out there has limitations.

 

Learning to work within (insert your title here) is part of the process. I have run and been successful with other CAM systems as well, Esprit not withstanding, the key for me was getting the job done. In a Machine Shop that is what it's all about.

 

Personally, I'll take a software with some overall flaws but that I can get to do EXACTLY what I want as opposed to a slick piece of software that demo's nicely but in daily use is severely lacking in the daily adaptability that resides in most shops.

 

You have to explore the possibilities, that I understand.

[Dave.L]

John,

 

I totally understand your point.

[3R!< W3NG3R]

John. You could probably use esprit and run circles around most people using MC. Not the best example IMO.

[Tyler Robertson]

quote:

---

The thing I would like to know is why they don’t want to compete in the mill/turn area. If they are doing something in this area it would be nice to hear what they are doing. I guess I don’t understand why ART is so important but lathe goes unchanged. How many people really use ART?

---

Part of the reseller conference this year was an assurance of the committed investment of time/money/personnel to the mill/turn functionality of Mastercam.

I don't know specifics, timelines, or anything useful (hey, I'm the robot guy), but I can say at least that it's a very important part of Mastercam, and the developers know this.

[BenK]

Thanks for the responce. From what I have seen around here the lack of a good mill/turn product sounds like the bigest complaint. It's good to hear they are doing something about it.

[crazy^millman]

What I put in a different thread about Esprit coming on the new Mori Mill/Turn machines.

 

This information was passed on to me by a good friend at Mori and yes all Multiaxis Mill/Turn will come with Esprit. Could have been Mastercam had they done something years ago, but they got Art instead good trade. I am getting more and more calls from people asking about Esprit and looks like if I want to be doing Mill/Turn with Mori's I better learn it. I am hoping I can get something worked out, but may end up having to purchase Esprit in the near future. Would have been nice to have Mastercam come with all these machines. I will digress and just say what they have been warned about this for years is now coming true. Seeing the writing on the wall was not enough now hopefully the proof being in the pudding or this case the machine will wake them up and shake some action out of CNC software, but I really doubt it and here hope I am wrong.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

Part of the reseller conference this year was an assurance of the committed investment of time/money/personnel to the mill/turn functionality of Mastercam.

---

 

Same song different DECADE!!!

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

Same song different DECADE!!!

---

:dancin:

 

Not to worry Dave, Esprit (as all software) will too

give ya that nice war, fuzzy, stick a hot poker

in yer eye feeling also.

 

It does good what its supposed to do.

 

 

PEACE

[Dave.L]

Steve,

 

We can always count on your optimism

 

Wait, I mean sarcasm.

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

Wait, I mean sarcasm.

---

 

I wrapping up a mill/turn project right now (first in MC)

And I got to admit its really coming along nicely.

 

2 spindle, single turret so no syncing is involved.

 

Ill keep you boys posted

 

 

PEACE

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

2 spindle, single turret so no syncing is involved.

---

So, how are you doing the transfer, manual entry?