Switching from mastercam to _____

[Reko]

Bump.

[William Grizwald]

"The OP was talking about complex 3-axis and 5-axis work and neither Catia nor UG is a good solution in that area IMO."

 

??? You're kidding right? NX while not as fast to learn as MC certainly handles 5ax superb. The same I'm sure is with Catia.

 

"But just to clarify.Both have poor verification capabilities for collisions in 5-axis work with only the toolpaths being verified for collisions and not the linking moves (which Powermill does)."

 

Using NX's Verify (since v5) it will tell you if the collision was during the transition between ops.

 

Just a heads up for the OP to decide.

 

--

Bill

[dforsythe]

Bill,

 

If you get time please send me an e-mail. right now NX is our first choice. i just want to talk to someone who uses it, not sells it.

 

Thanks, Damian

[dforsythe]

FYI here is a video the rep sent me that shows a little bit about the verify

 

[William Grizwald]

Damian, check your mail...

 

--

Bill

[88Matt]

quote:

---

as supervisor, I need to know all our cam systems ...

---

SSSSHHHHHHHHH.....

 

Talk like that will get you fired here. They think anybody can run a shop here. You don't even need to know the difference between a drill and end mill, literally.

[alanu23]

Just go here and download freemill. It should do everything that you need it to, and it is free!

http://www.mecsoft.com/freemill.shtml

[j-squared]

Switching to 5-axis, and doing it well, can be very difficult. It is not "plug and play", there are so many new variables (software, controller, mill and parts) Many 5-axis parts need special functions. For instance, you need a totally different 5-axis cutterpath to cut an impeller than you use for a turbine blade. Which are totally different than cutting a deep cavity, or tire tread or show tread.

 

Just because a package says it has 5-axis, doesn't mean it has 5-axis for your application.

 

Then, it's not enough to have a 5-axis post processor for your mill, but can the software work around the mill's idiosyncrasies and can it make the mill run smoothly? Some controllers do 5-axis well, some not so well, what can the software do to help this?

 

I would not plunk down any money without being able to evaluate the software on my parts, seeing them run on my mills.

 

For me, WorkNC does brillant roughing, smooth and efficient. But their Auto-5 is the frosting on the cake for deep parts.

[William Grizwald]

"Many 5-axis parts need special functions. For instance, you need a totally different 5-axis cutterpath to cut an impeller than you use for a turbine blade. Which are totally different than cutting a deep cavity, or tire tread or show tread."

 

Well put. One should know what they want to tool to do and then tell the software to do it. And, that software should do it that way (or close to it). Often times when showing cam programming to a new user from another package, I ask them what do you want the tool to do? That makes the system irrelevant.

 

--

Bill

[stevieboy]

I've been learning TopSolid Missler Design and cam, 5 axis programming now for about 7 months and I find it powerful with a lot of control, in tool path creation and entry and retract reposition scenario's.

I've been using Mastercam for a few years now, and just started learning 5 axis programming a month ago

when we got in 2 510 Haas Routers with the 5 axis Tri-Tech heads.

So far so good...But I'm not sure if Mcam has those entry and retract reposition moves.

[#Rekd™]

Does Catia make a cam software or is it an add on to the cad software?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Hockey Guy, CATIA CAM is FULLY integrated into the product. It is NOT an add-on in the sense that Mastercam is/can be an Add-On to SOlidworks.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you MUST buy the CAD to get the CAM, but you do not have to get the CAM if you buy the CAD.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Yes, the NC package is an additional license fee on top of the base cost of the product.

 

Don't quote me, but I've heard tales that a full Multi-axis seat of Catia NC is like $50,000. It may have come down in price, but the cost of the software and the maintenance fees are crazy expensive when compared to Mastercam.

 

I also find Catia much slower to create an NC program, unless you are doing nothing but 5 axis pocketing and swarf cutting.

 

Try cutting a contour and you'll see what I mean, 10 dialog boxes later. It is really powerful though, once you learn it.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Oh yeah, also be prepared to pay for a Post and Simulation as add-ons. No free posts (as far as I can tell) for Catia.

[gcode]

quote:

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I believe you MUST buy the CAD to get the CAM, but you do not have to get the CAM if you buy the CAD

---

This is correct.. We have one seat of Catia Design and annual maintenance is nearly the same as 3 full Mastercam multiaxis seats.

Buying and maintaining multiaxis Catia CAM is hellishly expensive

[BenK]

quote:

---

Buying and maintaining multiaxis Catia CAM is hellishly expensive

---

My question would be do you get enough extra functionality to make it worth the extra cost?

[gcode]

quote:

---

My question would be do you get enough extra functionality to make it worth the extra cost?

---

for high end 5X work with a top programmer..

absolutley..for the day to day stuff most of us

do.. hell no..

[Colin Gilchrist]

^^^ This.

 

If you aren't programming 5 axis it is just a waste. This is all my opinion of course, some people swear by Catia.

 

I just happen to think they also swear 'at' Catia (or at least Dassault) when the bill comes...

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Spend more time swearing AT and not BY! JMHO

[Bob W.]

Here are some recent prices I got while shopping around.

 

NX is ***** for full 5-axis and this includes NC verification capabilities and post processor. Maintenance is ***** per year.

 

Powermill 3-axis is **** and ***** per year maintenance. Powewrmill 5-axis is ~*****

 

Just FYI

 

Bob.. please read the FAQ's... and that's a killer price on NX.. maintenance is half what we

were paying on a 5X seat when we dropped it

last year

the cynic in me says there has to be a catch.

 

[ 05-20-2010, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[Dave.L]

Tom I thought users where not to discuss MC prices but honestly, whats wrong with discussing prices other than MC?

[Bob W.]

Gcode, my bad. I did read the FAQ before posting that and I was under the impression that price discussion regarding Mastercam products was off-limits since it could cause trouble to distributors in the different regions with various pricing plans. Here is the reasoning:

 

"Around the globe (Mastercam) product prices may fluctuate for various reasons including but not limited to economic conditions, varying service structures, international translation costs, and distribution costs."

 

I thought 3rd party prices were fair game. It will not happen again.

 

[ 05-20-2010, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Bullet Bob ]

[Bob W.]

I am really early in the process but I have an opportunity to pursue higher end work so I am starting to investigate higher end machines (Mori NH5000) and CAM packages. I was initially thinking about adding another seat of Mastercam but I decided to at least look at other options. I'm glad I did.

 

Here is the description from the NX sales person. Am I missing something?

 

Full 5-axis milling capabilities, including post processors for your HAAS machining centers is roughly $**,*** + $**** for annual maintenance

 

 

The basic description of this package is as follows:

 

Description:

CAM Express 5 Axis Milling

The CAM Express 5 Axis Milling product provides complete milling capabilities from 2 axis through 5 axis cutting complete with g-code driven machine simulation:

• Assembly modeling environment

• Translators for IGES, STEP, Parasolid, etc.

• Toolpath replay and material verification

• Generic motion control

• Holemaking and probing cycle support

• Wizard builder

• Tool path editor

• Shop Documentation

• Post processing

• Interactive Post Builder

• 2.5 Axis roughing, profiling, and face milling

• 3 Axis surface finishing

• NURBS machining

• 5 axis surface machining and swarfing

• 5 axis manual machining (sequential milling)

• G-code drive machine simulation

• Multi-channel program synchronization

[Dave.L]

Bob,

 

Just learn it and use it before you buy it. That's the only way to truley evaluate a new system.

[Bob W.]

Right, as I said I am very early in the process and I will be sure that it is worth the investment before moving forward. An informative thread was one by Prosin Molds a while back. He really did his homework and I plan to do the same.

 

I will always have this seat of Mastercam as well. I do think it is hard to beat in many respects but I am interested to see where the other packages have the edge.