A little more info

[Smit]

I agree to an extent, I miss the days when most software came with good books. We've recently purchased Vericut, for a LOT of money. It comes with online documentation only. Disappointing. As for learning Mastercam, to get the most out of it in a short period of time, you should find a way to make time for a training class (in my opinion). Popular opinion is Mastercam is simpler and more intuitive than many other cad packages, but it's still not simple software. The more you learn questions you'll have.

Smit

[puzzlemaker]

Quote:

You would be amazed at how much stuff there is in the software that you wouldn't find on your own. I took a V9 mill course and for 3 days all you could here was guys saying "Wow, that's really a time-saver" and "Geez, I wish I'd known about that before now"

 

This is my point exactly.If I don't know that a certain feature exists then how do you find it?I admit to the fact that I am not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to CAD/CAM but I am as willing to learn as the next person.A simple page to list what Router Entry has to offer would do wonders.

[gcode]

"What Mastercam router has to offer"

scroll down to the middle of the page.

 

 

http://www.mastercam.com/Products/router/default.asp

[P_Scott]

puzzlemaker,

 

The point that everyone seems to be making is this. A book can only give you information based on the experience, and constraints, of the author. The author may, or may not, have any practical experience in your particular field. How can a text book written by someone with differing experiences answer the questions, or know what questions, you will encounter.

Asking questions directly from a live, experienced and knowledgeable instructor makes the difference. I would not have learned half of what I know had I not gotten personal instruction. Whether from setting up and running a machine, or utilizing a highly complex computer application to program the CNC machine to cut stock. I can carry this experience through to any of the classes I instruct (thanks for the plug Chris ). Experience also helps me in answering those questions that my students have when it comes to their particular industry. I have the machining background that a book doesn't have. I have the programming background that a book doesn't. It's MY JOB to learn and know more about the software than any one individual working in a specific industry will. That's so I can instruct those who purchase the software on the most efficient usage of said software. As Chris stated, I often hear the same comments, even from experienced Mastercam users, because they FINALLY got around to taking a class they thought may be a waste of their time. Books and other hardcopy texts are only as good as the authors and what they THINK you will need to know. A good instructor will listen to your needs and then show you what you can do with the tool you've invested in. Everyone's different. You might learn everything you need from a good book. You will learn it faster through good, personal, instruction. The choice is yours. What is your investment worth? A lot more when you know how to use it. Sorry for the long text. I hope you attend a training class. It will be well worth the investment in both time and money. JMO

[puzzlemaker]

I am going to try to explain one last time, then I will admit defeat.

If your boss comes and says build this. You know what tools you have at your disposal with which to do the job.He doesn't tell you how to build it, just that he wants you to.That is what I would like to know. What tools do I have within this program to do what I need to do.I don't need to know how to apply it to my own personal projects. I simply would like to know what it is capable of.I will take as many courses as time and money will allow,but for now, I have to figure it out on my own.

One person says it is so simple even a monkey could use it,others say it too sophisticated to be put into words.For a nonmonkey where do I look ?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Honestly, I think I would start where gcode pointed you to. This tells of it's capabilities on the CAD side and the CAM side. It's probably the most comprehensive list.

 

HTH

[CPeast]

Ahhh Yes remember the days .... when they cleaned your winshield and checked the oil with $5.00 worth of gas, Movies were a buc or 2 and smokes even less. CAD/CAM software even came with user manuals (printed pn paper no less). Dos was king and only CAD/CAM guys had big monitors. Yeah those were the days when you could get out from behind that souped up 386 (whith the math co-processor) and lug your 6 pound users manual down the hall to the boys room to study while taking care of business.

 

Yeah, really though ... I miss the printed manuals. It is much better for a newbie to be able to thumb through and see various features and parameters with an explaination right there. Our Main CAD system still produces manuals but they dont print them, they give you a .pdf so the cost of printing is on you. Alot of people b*'ed about that, but seems to be the way things are these days. Especially with frequent patches, the documentation is obsolete by the time its printed.

 

Hey Toolfab ....

 

The Postal Gremlin is hilarious

[Scott Bond]

Hi puzzlemaker

I read your posts,and I understand you.

I am not convinced that you are understanding my fellow forum members.Could you look at the link Gcode posted and then let us know if this is the list you seek?

If it is, then great.

If it isn't ,, explain what should be on the list.

?

 

[ 04-18-2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[Charles Davis]

Puzzlemaker, I think you have somewhat of a valid point.

 

Software is so vast now that creating the type of comprehensive "bible" document you want would seriously slow product release: I mean by many, many months. It just isn't practical anymore.

 

That's why most software now relies heavily on on-line documentation. Much of this can be created in parallel with software development, and it's a lot easier to keep updated.

 

The Mastercam on-line help is quite good and under utilized by most people.

 

When I learned to fly I got a couple of really good manuals, but they were no substitute for a flight instructor. He taught me things that would have filled a bookcase and still not have been nearly as effective. You could say the same thing about driving, math, etc.

 

Any time you spend in class will pay for itself very quickly in improved productivity. Take the class, hang out in this forum, and have fun with Mastercam. You're in for an interesting, challenging, and rewarding education.

[Brendan P]

quote:

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What tools do I have within this program to do what I need to do.I don't need to know how to apply it to my own personal projects. I simply would like to know what it is capable of.

---

Now why would you have not asked your dealer all these questions before shelling out the $$?

You wouldn't go buy a car without knowing all of the options and what the thing is capable of doing would you?

quote:

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but for now, I have to figure it out on my own.

---

NO YOU DON'T!!

You have all of us here to help you out.

Nobody here is going to "spoon feed you".

So pick up that mouse,and start using it for something more than just beating a dead horse on this subject!

All the time you are wasting on this thread,you could have posted "quality" questions and have learned that much more today!

Please do not take this post personal,because I respect everyone here and dont want to be a jerk to anyone.

But I will not have anymore sympathy for you,as I myself stayed up many a nites till 5:00 am learning how to use this software.

And when you can claim to have done this,and still don't know what it is capable of,then I will feel bad for you.

As I said,I am not trying to be a di@K,I am hoping to motivate you into learning!

It is not easy,as we all put in our time.

I to this day am still learning stuff and still really dont everything!

[puzzlemaker]

I have a specific hole pattern I use on all my table tops,to be able to put threaded inserts for assembly.There are 5 holes in a pattern, around each leg . So on a four foot square table, four groupings of 5 holes.I use a single 3/8"upcutting spiral bit to do the whole operation .The top is 1" thick and I start .75 above the material.Each hole ,I want to drill a hole through the 1", then come up to a height of .9844, move over .218, do an indent, radius of .218,then move back .218, and raise up .7656. Then move to next hole and repeat again.It repeats 20 times.So how do I save this in a library so each time I design a new table it is all ready to go? It can save as a group of 5 holes but then it has to rotate each time as well.Or do I save it to do one hole?I looked in HELP and under save to library it said when Nesting, I don't have nesting.When all the holes are done I use same bit to cut out table shape.

[Rekd™]

Open the Operations manager, select the ops you want to save. Right click and select Save To Library. You will be able to use the existing library, or create a new one using "Select...". You can also save the geometry with the ops if you like.

 

Then when you want to get them back, right click on the ops manager, and select Get From Library.

 

'Rekd teh "If more people would spend more time LOOKING at stuff and using a little common sense and reasoning, I'd have more time for Rum & Cokes!"

[Mick]

Just out of interest, one product I found really useful for users of Unigraphics, was the UG CAST (Computer Assisted Self Teach) module. Its basically a bunch of training courses that you install along with UG. When you run the CAST program, it fires up UG, and UG runs with a panel down the side guiding you through the course. It was very good for getting new users trained on the software. It got me started on Unigraphics when I was a newbie. Its a pity I'm not a software developer, otherwise I'd do one for Mastercam

[Scott Bond]

Hi Puzzlemaker

Rekd wrote

quote:

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You can also save the geometry with the ops if you like.

---

If you try this this weekend and get stuck I will email you my phone # and help you thru it.

 

P.S.

If Rekd had more time for Rum & Cokes!

""His contribution to programming would be staggering""

[Rekd™]

Oh, and as far as having to rotate, there's a few options here.. you could, as you suggested, do one hole, but then you have to create the geometry each time and rotate it. I would suggest, if you're doing what I think you're doing, is to create the 5 hole pattern at, say, zero degrees and save the operations with that pattern. Then when you have to create new ones, import the ops with the geometry and position and rotate accordingly.

 

You could also probably use a macro (mastercam's macro, not the machines), to creat the pattern, and have it prompt for an angle and where to put it.

 

And lastly, create, or have a friend create, a VB Script to create/rotate and prompt for a location to place the geometry.

 

'Rekd teh Inebriated

 

[ 04-18-2003, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[iowajim62]

Hi puzzlemaker,

As Rekd stated with Ops Manager method you can call up routines and place them where you want.

But let's say you wanted to rotate those 5 holes around the table 4 places then you would go to Toolpaths,Next Menu,Transform and it will let you rotate your toolpaths around a origin point. Or you could just draw up your 5 holes and save that as 5holes.mc9 and then go to File,New say yes. Now click Create,Next Menu,Pattern and call up file 5holes.mc9 and place the pattern where you want. Now open Ops Manager and call up your saved cuts from your library and regen the new toolpaths. To regenerate your toolpaths click on Geometry in cut you have open. That will open a new window which shows the geometry currently associated with that cut. You can highlight and delete that geo and then right-click in the window and select add chain and start picking your new geo. There are more ways to do things than we have time to go over here but you can see for yourself which way you like to do things and adopt those as your "way of doing things". Hope you can figure out what you need, let us know.

HTH

[BernieT]

Hello Puzzlemaker - welcome to the forum, stick around a while, there is a lot to offer here.

 

This is a good question.

 

My suggestion for this type of project is to draw your 5 holes and toolpath them. Save this as "5-holes.mc9" Now each time you have a new project open this file and "save as" your new project number. Create your table geometry on this new project number drawing and translate/rotate the five holes where needed in ONE corner only. Regenerate the toolpath. Now 'translate and copy' 'create new geometry and operations' the five holes to the other 3 locations. Actually, 'Rotate and copy' 'create new geometry and operations' around the center of a square table is even better.

 

That should make the hole toolpaths an easy and repeatable job. Also, you still have the file '5-holes.mc9' ready for the next job.

 

[ 04-18-2003, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: BerTau ]

[Brendan P]

quote:

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If you try this this weekend and get stuck I will email you my phone # and help you thru it.

---

OOH my god,I am gonna have to start playing dumb around here!

Phone #??

You never offered me this kind of service Mr.Bond!

Just kidding!!!

 

Hey puzzle,now your talking!

Now you will be on your way to learning.

You keep asking how to do this,and how to do that,and you will always get an answer here.

And the best part of it is that Jay is nice enough to invite us to upload our files on his FTP.

So even if you really get stuck,someone can always look at your file and help you out.

God I love this place!

PS.. notice how Rekd had an answer for you when you ask a real question?

[Rekd™]

quote:

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PS.. notice how Rekd had an answer for you when you ask a real question?

---

Ahem...

 

I was hoping he wouldn't notice it was me.

 

'Rekd teh Cat's outta the bag

[BernieT]

quote:

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I was hoping he wouldn't notice it was me.

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Everybody notices you, Rekd, you cannot hide.

[Jack Mitchell]

I haven't seen this much group excitement since the kid pulled the sword out of the stone.

 

Well done forum members for making this argument both effective and educational.

 

I even learned a bit of insight towards manufacturing furniture; speaking of furniture, what specific stain product is used on Gerstner American cherry?

 

Regards, Jack

[Brendan P]

Jack,

Why do you always wait till the end to get into the thread?

Cant you start in the middle sometimes?

[Mark Lovelace]

I gotta agree with puzzlemaker, here. I have gone through the manuals and tutorials for V6 through V9, and they barely scratch the surface. The tutorials tend to make the project fit the function, when in reality you need to find how to apply a function to a project. Sure, there's a good help file, but it is really only used for problem solving. It would be really nice for Mastercam to offer a complete guide to functions and parameters under each. For 15K, it's not too much to ask.

 

And puzzlemaker, good on ya' for staying put and holding your ground. BTW, I also work with wood, though I own Mill3 instead of Router. If you have questions, give a call or e-mail.

[Noel]

I'm a liitle confused.When we first bought Mcam it included 16 hours of training and for a small cost we did the training right in our shop.Thus allowing us to tailor the training to our applications.As with most new software and programing languages the will always be a learning curve.I would suggest calling your reseller they can be a great help.I have been using since Ver. 7 and still call for advice once and a while.Hell they even call me somtimes.You can email files and posts back and forth and usualy get prety fast results.Any way it's more satisfying to be self taught but there is no shame in asking for help.Thats were the forum can also be a good source of help.Anyway don't worry in a few months you wont know how you ever did without mastercam.

Noel