To dry or wet machine

[GREG]

Just after thoughts and opinions on dry ( oil air ) verse wet machining.

Advantages -disadvantages as we only wet machine here.

Thanks in advance

[Allan]

On most highspeed aplications air only is the way to go! To quote Mr. Nackamichi (an AE for Toshiba) "all heat go chip, tool no get hot!"

 

Allan

[Müřlıń®]

I have always used air....

 

Carbide lasts longer for me if I cut with air.

 

 

Murlin

[Rekd™]

I cut air all the time..

 

'Rekd

[Thad]

We use air for insert cutters. The inserts last longer that way.

 

We use coolant on solid carbide.

 

Thad

[Fig sign]

Never use coolant on hardened steel, use air !

[GREG]

What about ali.

Can you achieve better feeds and finish dry.

Cheers

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

When cutting steel I always use air. When driling High Pressure coolant if available.

 

I've heard of people in Europe experementing with cutting aluminum with an air-oil mist. Don't know first hand how well this works.

 

JM2C

[Jack Mitchell]

James,

 

quote:

---

I've heard of people in Europe experementing with cutting aluminum with an air-oil mist. Don't know first hand how well this works.

---

This works great for about five minutes - then your lungs fill up with the stuff (really an unpleasant experience that does not entertain the foul taste of aluminum submicron particles mixed nicely with the coat your tongue greasiness) - ultra nasty stuff

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Fig sign]

+1 to Jack !

Flood the ali !

[Keith Graydon]

quote:

---

I cut air all the time..

---

mwhahahahahhaahha

 

+1 on James.

 

Dunno about that air/oil mist 'tho

[Keith M]

I use air all the time with insert cutters. I found that coolant would fracture the insert.

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

---

What about ali.

Can you achieve better feeds and finish dry.

---

Always have to use some sort of coolant with Ali...your cutter will gum up if you dont.

 

 

Depends on how much Ali you are cutting and on what type of machine.

If you need to hold tolerance and keep the part cool, then you must flood it.

 

If you just machining a little and just want to keep your cutter from gumming up, then sometimes an acid brush and some kerosene does the trick.

Or a can of WD-40.....

 

I guess if you are on an enclosed CNC, I guess you must resort to flooding.

 

 

One neat trick for surface grinding Ali was to just pour motor oil on the surface of the Ali part and grind away:)

The heavy viscosity of the oil kept it from being blown away from the air current created by the spinning grinding wheel......

 

 

Murlin

[steve f]

quote:

---

What about ali.

Can you achieve better feeds and finish dry.

Cheers

---

...what kind of aluminum? Regular 6061 needs coolant but with mold alm like QC7 you'll have some luck cutting dry.

 

Steve

[mayday]

Submerge woks great for wire EDM

 

drop your machine in a lake

everything runs cooler

need ice pick in winter tho

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

I use air all the time with insert cutters. I found that coolant would fracture the insert.

---

The reason for this is thermal expansion. It's expecially noticable on ceramic inserts. The inserts get so hot when they enter the material, then come off the material and get dowsed and cooled rapidly. The cycle happens every time the insert comes in contact with the material, up to 4,000 times per minute or more!!! That kind of rapid expansion/contraction will make anything wanna shatter!!

 

The rule of thumb with inserts... "If you can't completely submerge the cutter the entire time it's cutting, run it dry." The lake idea comes to mind..

 

'Rekd

[the Toolman]

Always use coolant on alunimum or stainless. For high speed machining of steels use carbide tooling with AlTin coatings with forced air if available to clear chips. AlTin needs 800 degrees at the chip to oxidze. Break down temp for AlTin is around 1500 degrees.Flood coolant keeps the cutter from reaching this temperature and also shocks the tool causing premature failure. If you a re not running fast enough to reach this temperature or want to use flood coolant usr Ticn for coating. This works at a lower temp but fails at 800 degrees. If you want to E-Mail me with the materials you are cutting and the depth and width of the cuts you want to make I will recomend cutter geomentry and feeds and speeds.

[Lucky]

We use air/oil mist when high speed machining hardened steel. The mist is very fine and very little oil is used. A couple of ounces will be used to run all day. The oil is vegetable based. An oil mist extractor is required otherwise you will breathe the mist and die then OSHA will punish you.

[CAM-mando]

Rekd

 

quote:

---

It's expecially noticable on ceramic inserts.

---

Are you talking ceramic "coated" ? Actual ceramic inserts (Greenleaf etc.) should NEVER be run with coolant. They rely on the heat generated at the curt to make the material more plastic requireing less shearing force.

[Rekd™]

CAM,

 

Yes, coated ceramic. I sit corrected.

 

I've never used solid ceramic, what can you run them at? How quickly do they come up to temp?? Do you just run it into the material at the desired feed rate, or work up to it? What's the softest mat'l you'd run it in? It's gonna trash my HAAS' isn't it? Or is it gonna reduce the force enough to not bounce it around the shop floor?

 

'Rekd

 

[ 07-24-2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[CAM-mando]

I used the Greenfield ceramic button inserts in 4" face mills cutting Inconell 718 and Rene'80.

 

You have to run at the recomended speed and chip load for them to work, but if you do they haul a$$. What takes hours with carbide takes minutes with ceramic.

 

2300 SFM, over 100 times the removal rate of carbide in some hi temp alloys.

 

I placed a Word Document called CeramicMillTrials on the FTP in "unspecified uploads" It has machining data and pictures. These are real pics and numbers as I did the testing myself.

 

Look here for the techie stuff http://www.greenleafcorporation.com/images/PDF/WG-300.pdf

 

[ 07-25-2003, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: CAMmando ]

[mold100]

I to go with air most of the time, lately been trying an air & fine (real fine) oil mist seems just the same,but not on teeny endmills (under .02) seems to make them there chips sticky and causes cutter to break.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Hey Mitch!

 

Just so ya'll know Mitch(thetoolman) is the one who does the tooling part of my highspeed seminars. Very knowledgable about tooling, but knew nothing of forum till last week, and I got him signed up(When he wasn't flicking cigarettes at joggers here in Morganton )

 

Lucky,

Quit scaring the newbies withtales of death and osha. See you at the Raliegh seminar?

 

Jimmy

[skeetboy25]

we have an intersting relic that I've grown quite fond of, a high (sic) pressure nozzle that spray atomized kerosene (or the greenish jp4 selln' stuff [don't know if it is kero]) I find that for doing work in your more brittle steels, especialy on (gasp, heresy) manuals, this thing is a life saver.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Skeetboy,

Jp4 is helicopter fuel, one step down from jp5 which is jet fuel. Very volatile stuff, static electricity will set it up. (kero and gas mix).

 

Does cool stuff as it evaporates, but the sparks and heat with high speed?

 

Maybe change tooling so that the coolant does not have to work so hard to cool tool? Contact thetoolman on this forum.

 

Jimmy