What you expect from X7 ?

[Newbieguy]

I just finished reading these 5-pages of responses (to the Topic of"What do you expect to see in X7?"), and every page has some mention of "I hope they fix previous bugs" or "please fix bugs that have not been fixed in years..."

 

Let me state up front, that I am not a MasterCam programmer. I do however, employ 4 (soon to be 5) of what I consider to be some of the best MasterCam users in the country. If there is an ugly, nasty, twisted, part out there - my guys can make it. And they do it using 3-axis machines. (They've been using MasterCam since 1988, so they are not noobs)

 

So, here is what I'd like to expect as an "owner" of 4-seats of MC Mill w/Solids: I'd expect X7 to be released to current MasterCam Maintenance subscribers FREE OF CHARGE.

 

Why? In the last 5 years every release of MasterCam has been so riddled with bugs, it hasn't been useable until the first service pack rolls out. And every year, it gets progressively worse. Take X6 for instance... My guys are just now "starting" to trust X6 because of MU2 being released. Solids that used to get dirty for no reason at all (even after MU1)... now magically don't get dirty - even though the same procedures and files were used. (And I was informed by CNC at IMTS, that "obviously your programmers are doing something wrong or out of order").

 

So almost a year after X6's roll-out, I finally have a program that appears to be useable. In other words, the $$$ I spent on maintenance last year, has allowed me to use a "useable" program for 1 month. And now they are talking about rolling out X7 - which we all know is basically a repaired X6. Or worse: another bug-infested, "wait until MU2 before you use it" software. (I still have the $12,500 steel compression mold that was scrapped by MasterCam in X1... and when everything was submitted to CNC -our MC files, order process, etc. - was told, "Oh yeah, that's a new bug. We've assigned it a number. Sorry."

 

So, as an owner of a job shop, what do I expect of X7? I expect the bug reports to be fixed - going all the way back to X, before any new features are added. I expect X7 to not be released...EVER... until someone has run every toolpath option available in Mastercam, on a complex 3D part - without a crash, or fault. Or geometry construction that doesn't suddenly go "dirty" for no reason. (If it was clean when you exited, how did it get dirty when you start the next morning?) And I expect X7 to be released free of charge to life-long buyers of MasterCam - as a way of apologizing for wasting my employees time (which equates to my money) for releasing software that wasn't beta-tested... or worse, was tested by people who only perform 2D operations.

[uncle_dolan]

I do however, employ 4 (soon to be 5) of what I consider to be some of the best MasterCam users in the country....

 

 

....for releasing software that wasn't beta-tested... or worse, was tested by people who only perform 2D operations.

 

Perhaps it would be beneficial for you to sign your programmers up to the beta testing program...surely the best programmers in the country would not let any bugs go unnotiiced.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the majority of what you are saying, however i think that assuming the beta testers only use 2D operations is an insult to the people who beta test this software. Many of the forum members here are in the beta testing program, and it is not something that they are employed to do...they do it to aid with the development of the software by testing it in the real world. I, like you, am only just moving to X6 now because of the issues X6 had upon release. I'm not sure how the software was released with so many faults, but i would not be blaming the beta testers.

[gcode]

for releasing software that wasn't beta-tested... or worse, was tested by people who only perform 2D operations.

 

Sir, as someone who has been a Mastercam owner and beta tester for over a decade 13 years I will state flat out.. you don't know what you're talking about

[Jeremy Herron@DBS Solutions™]

Sir, I wholeheartedly agree with Gcode. Anything else I have to say would be unacceptable in this forum. I suggest you open your mindset and quit pointing fingers, get your guys involved in beta testing, and then and only then, make a more informed response to this topic.

[Newbieguy]

Uncle Dolan: I think you hit the nail on the head. I should not have assumed that Beta Testers only used 2D toolpaths. I should have assumed that Mastercam would not release a software until their beta testers have thoroughly tested it.

 

GCode: I apologize for insulting beta testers. I should have clarified that a software released by CNC Software, should NOT be released until the beta testers signed off on it. If you've been doing this 13 years, then I'm certain you spotted the phantom "dirty geometry" errors and fouled uptoolpaths that worked in X5, but suddenly didn't work in X6 (rinitial release, MU1 AND MU2) - and I'm certain you reported them.

 

Jeremy: "Getting my guys involved in beta testing..." This is what I have been doing since MCX was rolled out. INVOLUNTARILY. CNC Software has asked us numerous times to become involved with beta-testing, and my response has been, "That is what we do every time you roll out a new product prematurely." It's one thing to be a programmer who uses the tools your owner provides. It is quite another, to be the owner... who pays for the tools and discovers they don't work. (I'm not like the Government - I have to make money.)

[Jeremy Herron@DBS Solutions™]

I accept your apology, and I understand what you are saying. Beta testers have no say in when software is released. That being said, I am also an owner and I also have to make money. I know that alpha/beta testing for X7 has been going on for nearly a year now and My hat is off to the people at CNC software for the amount of effort they have put into this release. Is it perfect yet? No, but it gets closer with every beta release. I run my business with it everyday in an effort to find bugs and fix them before the software gets released to the public, and I program some of the most expensive parts on some of the most expensive machines. Maybe my mindset is different being a beta tester because I go into it looking for problems and expect to find them, but I do my best to be part of the solution.

[fastercam]

What I'd like to see in X7 is for Verify to open in a seperate window, allowing you to continue on with your work as it's processing.

[Joe788]

What I'd like to see in X7 is for Verify to open in a seperate window, allowing you to continue on with your work as it's processing.

 

Hmmmm, make sure you get yourself a second monitor before X7 comes out.

[fastercam]

Hmmmm, make sure you get yourself a second monitor before X7 comes out.

 

Done.

[RayD]

Hmmmm, make sure you get yourself a second monitor before X7 comes out.

 

3 Monitors, need one for emastarcam.com and emails

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

4 monitors. Tool manager.

[TK-32™]

6 monitors. Debuger

[Newbeeee™]

and a steering wheel looking at the test drive thread!

Oooh I hate meeces to pieces

[Guest]

... releasing software that wasn't beta-tested... or worse, was tested by people who only perform 2D operations.

 

[Bob W.]

It's one thing to be a programmer who uses the tools your owner provides. It is quite another, to be the owner... who pays for the tools and discovers they don't work. (I'm not like the Government - I have to make money.)

 

Amen to that!

[Bob W.]

I have been frustrated with Mastercam and the bugs for years and I am very vocal about it. There has to be a tangible result to the cost of maintenance and it has to be more than accounted for in increased productivity. If I am paying $x,xxx per year in maintenance I should be seeing at least double that added to my bottom line in increased profits. I wasn't seeing that for the last few years so I dropped maintenance. Business 101, plain and simple. I do want to stay current and I am saving my annual Mastercam maintenance $$$ towards a future change, whether it is Powermill, NX, or Mastercam if I feel that they have finally got it together enough to earn back my business.

[Bob W.]

If Mastercam wants to make the shop owners using their product happy, they need to focus on the features that will save the programmers the most time. They should also focus on the toolpaths that will save the most machine time. From a programming standpoint, the bugs have been the #1 time consumer by a huge margin. Toolpaths that don't work right, trying ten different settings on Hybrid surfacing in an effort to actually get a toolpath instead of the typical 'can't determine valid machining zone' error or similar. Hours of wasted time on mildly complex molds.

 

From a machine standpoint the #1 time waster was rest roughing. I haven't used this in a while but it sounds like these issues still persist. Trying ten different settings to get a rest roughing path that utilizes the machine time efficiently instead of wasting a ton of time cutting air. I have stuck with X5 and Volumill because it is spot on and every time I program and machine a mold it saves me several hundred dollars in programming and machine time compared to Mastercam's roughing and rest roughing offering. The current mold I am working on has a part that is 600Mb and hybrid surfacing puked on it after crunching for a few hours. This stuff has to be more stable and more efficient to I can get the jobs done faster and with less spindle time. That is the low-hanging fruit in my opinion.

 

On the positive, the 2D HST toolpaths have been a grand slam. I use them all the time and they have been bulletproof, except when there was a bug in X3 and they would machine to the incorrect depths and I found out after scrapping a mold that I had a ton of time into... I had to deal with that bug for four months until the next service pack was released.

 

For the folks that say "but these issues have been fixed in X6, you should upgrade and take advantage of them"... They haven't been fixed, they have been replaced with a new set of bugs and issues on other features. I have seen this cycle since starting with X, and it has been extremely frustrating and I realized that it would probably never change. I guess I have given up hope for now.

[Reece L Gibson]

Ability for system to know you only have solids on the screen and not have to go tell the system you have to go pick the solid to enable solids abilities

 

I knew I liked you for a reason!

[TK-32™]

They way I see it, they have to come up with a yearly product to justify maintenance. They're a business and they have to make money. Nothing wrong with that.

Too bad there are no better options. All CAD's have their issues. It's part of the game.

[Guest]

With as many CAM Systems I have/do put my hands on, there's one thing I can say for certain; they ALL have their own issues. ANYONE that believes/thinks otherwise is delusional.

[Bob W.]

With as many CAM Systems I have/do put my hands on, there's one thing I can say for certain; they ALL have their own issues. ANYONE that believes/thinks otherwise is delusional.

 

Agree, but how long does it take to get fixes? I have seen software companies that are fixing issues on a monthly basis, not semi-annually. Also, most bugs do NOT persist for several product generations.

 

Same with machine tools :-) Some have more issues than others.

[Bob W.]

With as many CAM Systems I have/do put my hands on, there's one thing I can say for certain; they ALL have their own issues. ANYONE that believes/thinks otherwise is delusional.

 

I should also add that when installing a new version of ProE or Vericut, or any other software used by my shop, NONE of them ever disrupted my work flow as dramatically as Mastercam did. It is such a pain and the reliability so uncertain that I had to wait for a slow time to install so I could deal with the issues without turning my schedule upside down. It shouldn't be that way.

[SKIR68]

I run a mill/turn, can i PLEASE have stock recognition in lathe when i mill it away???

[neurosis]

I agree with everything that Bob has said.

 

I have always pushed to stay current with any system that we use here at work. This includes Mastercam.

 

We are licensed for several systems here and to quote Bob,

 

NONE of them ever disrupted my work flow as dramatically as Mastercam did. does

 

Even X6 mu2 (havent needed mu3) has a lot of glitches. More disturbingly, glitches that were not there in previous releases.

 

Having said all of that. There are as many things that I like about this system as dislike... If these glitches would get taken care of and not reappear every other release... I would have very little to complain about.

[Bob W.]

Having said all of that. There are as many things that I like about this system as dislike... If these glitches would get taken care of and not reappear every other release... I would have very little to complain about.

 

+1