Makino F8 VMC

[gcode]

We're looking at one of these to replace an old OKK VMC that's due for the boneyard.

Experiences, comments and opinions are welcomed.

 

It looks like a very nice machine tool to me, probably overkill for our intended use.

[gcode]

Another candidate is a Mori Seiki NVX7000.

The Makino looks like a much nicer ride to me.

[GoetzInd]

I know some shops that have F5's and they seem pretty happy.

 

Mike

[kh012]

we are also looking for a vertical. just talked to the matsura salesman.

the "VX" series might also fit your needs, comes with a fanuc 31i controler. he claimed it was on par

with the mori nvx series, but you know how that goes.

 

Ken

[gcode]

I'm still waiting for the Matusura/Toyoda submission.

Hard to beat that F8 though. That machine is a beast!

[Newbeeee™]

The Matsuura is built by Quaser with a Mats spindle and the Mats software - so it's finished to their exacting standards.

They do look exceptional value for money.

Over here I'd stay well clear of a Mori because of the whole DMG tie-up.

What's the deal with the Makino - is it a travelling colum in both X and Y? It sure looks good from an operating standpoint - all that window (hope it's bullet proof glass)

[GoetzInd]

F series is traveling X and Z. Y is table.

 

Mike

[Newbeeee™]

Never seen the point with that though- I remember the Hitachi rep saying that the VS50 was this configuration and it was better for accuracy/moving mass arrangement because the X wasn't compromised by the mass of the part on the table.

We asked about the Y and he just looked blank

 

Best arrangement I always thought was the Matsuura FX5 which had XYZ travelling. The operator was only 20" from the spindle with a crystal clear view of the 20k spindle!.

[gcode]

F series is traveling X and Z. Y is table.

 

Mike

 

and able to handle 1500 pounds more weight.

the downside to this design is you can't hang oversized parts off the

ends of the table because it will hit the double columns supporting the

X axis.

[crazy^millman]

Here is a link for those interested: http://www.makino.com/vertical-machining-centers/f8/

 

I say you cannot go wrong and will be surprised how much different a Makino machines parts.

[YoDoug®]

Never seen the point with that though- I remember the Hitachi rep saying that the VS50 was this configuration and it was better for accuracy/moving mass arrangement because the X wasn't compromised by the mass of the part on the table.

We asked about the Y and he just looked blank

 

Actually He was correct in that having both axis' in the table can add errors that can't be compensated by linear moves. When you are moving a large mass and changing directions fast in two axis' at one time (G02, G03, etc) you are more prone to get roll, pitch, and yaw in the table.

[Newbeeee™]

Doug - what I meant was the VS50 had the X as a moving colum but the Y was the table moving.

Rep said that this was great for the X because whether you had a feather or a ton on the table, the X was unafected.

That's when we said what about the Y!

 

Just looked up the Makino again. It does look a sweet machine. The only thing I'd be concerned about is the control being windowze. I'm asuming it isn't a hard drive?

Not good for machines - the Siemens controls all last around a couple of years I believe (talking the older 840's with hard drives).

 

And a bit more http://www.makino.com.sg/product-information/vertical_machining-f8.html

 

 

Oohhhhh I love new machine day. We have one coming in on Friday

[BenK]

I use the Pro 5 control every day. It takes a little getting used to but once you get the hang of it it is really nice. One of my favorite features is the floating menu, you can customize it with the most commonly used functions. Also the data center makes it really easy to transfer programs to the machine. You set it to a file on your network and can either run the program off the network or use it to transfer it into the control with a simple copy and paste.

[Newbeeee™]

Doug - just re-read what you wrote again - I had obviously miss-read it

I didn't know that - every day is a school day!

 

I thought (and had read years ago) that even distribution was the key, as the X was always constant if moving, where the Y had to accommodate differing loads which was difficult to tune parameter wise (because of the unknown mass).

[Redfire427]

We've got an F5 in our line-up of Makino's and it has been a great machine. We went with the 30K spindle and had Makino design and build a 4th axis for it ( Koma ). It has been a stellar performer for us.

 

Carmen

[Sticky]

Best arrangement I always thought was the Matsuura FX5 which had XYZ travelling. The operator was only 20" from the spindle with a crystal clear view of the 20k spindle!.

 

The Matsuura FX5 I ran had Y on a ram, with the Z hanging off the end of it. The X was on the table. It was a slick setup. Having that 20k spindle come flying towards your face with when doing Y rapid moves would wake you up

 

I think the machine was a 1992.

[Mic]

The Matsuura FX5 I ran had Y on a ram, with the Z hanging off the end of it. The X was on the table. It was a slick setup. Having that 20k spindle come flying towards your face with when doing Y rapid moves would wake you up

 

I think the machine was a 1992.

 

Old generation FX5 had a 20k spindle, the later ones a 27k.

 

Y+Z in spindle and X in table was the same kinematic setup as old Okuma MX-x5VA(E). Okuma then changed to X+Z in spindle and Y in table for the current MB-x6VA(E) series.

 

Benefit from XZ in spindle and Y in table is less overhang.

[Mic]

One bad a$$ vertical machine design was the Matsuura V.Max-800. Very ridig design but too expensive to build so this was abandon in favour of the more conventional V.Plus series.

[Newbeeee™]

The Matsuura FX5 I ran had Y on a ram, with the Z hanging off the end of it. The X was on the table. It was a slick setup. Having that 20k spindle come flying towards your face with when doing Y rapid moves would wake you up

 

I think the machine was a 1992.

Errr - that's an embarrasment - my bad.

Just looked at one and yes X table movement. Memory fading...

Was the mazak big table vertical travelling in all axis? Like a heckler and koch where you could put a table divide up and do one side of the part on the left of the table and the other side of the part on the right?

Sticky - are you the UK?

[Sticky]

Errr - that's an embarrasment - my bad.

Just looked at one and yes X table movement. Memory fading...

Was the mazak big table vertical travelling in all axis? Like a heckler and koch where you could put a table divide up and do one side of the part on the left of the table and the other side of the part on the right?

Sticky - are you the UK?

 

Yeah I think Mazak was traveling in all axis.

 

I am just outside of Vancouver Canada.

 

You guys in the UK got a lot more of the Matsuura FX verticals and FXH horizontals then we did in North America for some reason. In fact I don't think I've ever seen a Matsuura FXH 600 or 700 here ever. Those machines were so badass for their day, and really still are in many respects.

[Sticky]

One bad a$$ vertical machine design was the Matsuura V.Max-800. Very ridig design but too expensive to build so this was abandon in favour of the more conventional V.Plus series.

 

I've never seen one in person. From what I can see online is that the Y and Z are on the same slide, and the table moves in X. I'm wondering if there is a support for the front of the Y axis up top, looks like there could be but I can't tell with the sheet metal on.

 

Or is the Y on a ram like the FX5?

[Mic]

Or is the Y on a ram like the FX5?

 

No ram. The base is like a big square cube with the Y axis traveling on top of it. With tandem ballscrews ( one on each side )

 

I think I got a brochure somewhere with a picture. Will see if I can find it and make a scan.

[Sticky]

No ram. The base is like a big square cube with the Y axis traveling on top of it. With tandem ballscrews ( one on each side )

 

I think I got a brochure somewhere with a picture. Will see if I can find it and make a scan.

 

Ohhhhh that sounds soooo sexy. Would definitely love to see the scan. That sounds like the ultimate vmc construction.

[Mic]

Here the impressive V.Max-800.

[Newbeeee™]

Hubba Hubba - that won't drag in a storm!

Still, our Chevalier's have 850mm X travel