O/T Acceleration

[Rekd™]

Subject: Real Acceleration

 

Some of us may think we have experienced acceleration g forces, but read this to get a grip of what real acceleration is.

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But first, some useful info:

 

One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the NASCAR Daytona 500.

 

Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1 1/2 gallons of nitro

methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.

 

A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the

dragster supercharger.

 

With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.

Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.

 

At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitro methane the flame

front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.

 

Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the

stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

 

Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.

 

Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during one pass. After half-way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.

 

If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in

the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.

 

In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track,the launch acceleration approaches 8G's . .

 

Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence.

 

Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light!

Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under

load.

 

The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm.

 

The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated US $1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03 Tony Shumacher) The top speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta).

 

Putting all of this into perspective:

You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter "twin-turbo" powered

Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through

the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an

honest 200 mph.

The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the

finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him.

 

Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race course.

 

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Now THAT, folks, is Acceleration!

 

'Rekd

[Mark C]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!

THAT is cool!

[Philcott]

RekD,

 

Don't you wish you computer could process with that kind of power?

 

Phil

[chip]

+1

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Spotting 1/4 mile... @200MPH.....

 

WOW!!!!!!

[MATT Q]

Those things are great to see race also. The noise and smells my kids love them they grew up around race cars so they love old muscle cars and such.

[George_Gerhard]

I have pulled 4+ positive G's and 2 negative G's in a areobatic plane, after 30 minutes of this plus spins barrel rolls and accelerated stalls you will want to puke.

I loves G's

 

rgds

George

 

 

check gear down

[Harryman]

That's a cool bunch of facts. Nitro must be super fun to play with on large scale.

 

Anyone into nitro R/C cars?

 

My sonny boy and I have had some good fun with them. We mix our own fuel. He bought a gallon of nitro at Brainerd Intl. $31.

 

We only run 20%, dragsters run 90% or so. Those little glow fuel engines are fun / agravating to keep in tune, but I think you get a glimpse of the fun the real fuelers have. It's amazing the power boost from just 20% nitro over pure alcohol in the glow engines.

 

We've tried the stuff in an old chainsaw. Fun while it lasted. That little old Mac really hauled xxxx till meltdown. I belive the line about the engines running near hydro lock, more seems better with that stuff.

[chip]

quote:

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the launch acceleration approaches 8G's . .

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........then they pull the chutes!

[MACHINEMASTERG]

i live 2 miles from atco raceway and you can hear them babys run clear as a bell on a cool summer night

[Tony]

No wonder why they need all the Big sponsors

To stay right on the Edge with everyone else.

I wonder whats Next,Stronger components?

[mayday]

quote:

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Anyone into nitro R/C cars?

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Not quite nitro, me and a buddy got a little more detructive. I have played some with air R/c but mostly cars/trucks. we set up an electric off road buggy with an extra servo which when activated triggerd a spark which light a muzzle loader cap which lite an estes rocket

worked really well twice. the third time the rocket got hung up on the car ....

well our intention was to test on a car and put on an r/c plane but after seeing a total meltdown of plastic we could'nt decide whos plane we were going to use

[Dan Schnars]

Kind of makes the 800 + horsepower we play with all day look like child's play. I've heard horror stories about pistons and connecting rods looking like pop-corn after some of those runs. The amazing thing is how fast they rebuild one of those engines between runs... Now that's cool.

[randy]

Dragsters are cool but nothing can beat the acceleration or the high from a F16 on full 90 deg afterburn climb .

[kccadcam]

If you've never seen them race..... You MUST!!

http://www.nhra.com/basics/dayatdrags.html

Nothing like two dragsters trying to rotate the earth!!!!!!

[A-ron1286490684]

quote:

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Anyone into nitro R/C cars?

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Now yer talkin'. Got two Kyosho Inferno 7.5 Yuichi Kanai edition 1/8 scale 4wd off road buggies. Each with over $1500.00 invested in them.

 

Some good pictures here... http://www.kyosho.com/cars/kyoc0562.html

 

This one shows the scale...

http://www.kyosho.com/cars/kyoc0561b1-2.jpg

 

-Both have Picco/Collari hand built, hand ported and polished Italian race motors that can run up 30 percent nitro but I run 20 percent. 3 hp out of a piston the dia of a nickle (.21 displacement)

 

-All steel gear, high tourque, quick throw digital JR servos all around.

 

-German sealed bearings all around including the steering standoffs.

 

-Tuned race pipes on each.

 

-All hardened steel differential and center diff transfer case gears.

 

-Adjustable aftermarket torque sensing center diff with billet machined housings.

 

-Twin disc brakes on each center diff outdrive with adjustable front/rear brake bias.

 

-Centrifugal racing cluth with composite pads.

 

-Front and rear sway bars.

 

-Oil dampened shocks with adjustable compression/rebound and springrate.

 

-One driver who runs 'em like they are stolen.

 

It's always a kick to watch people's jaw drop as all four wheels spin and standup like a dragsters tires and spit grass or dirt into a two foot roost as it leaps out of it's own shadow with a mighty whine and nitro-methane w/castor smell in the air.

 

Also got a little beater RC10 nitro stadium truck and a couple of electric Mini Z's for running in the house with my wife.

 

Maybe someday I'll build me a sand rail too Rekd... http://www.osengines.com/engines/osmg1320.html

 

Harryman, run the cars for at least 5-7 mins with virgin glowplugs before tuning -since the chassis is also a heatsink tuning should not even begin until the bottom of the chassis is too hot to touch. Set the low-end needle on idle for best results just leaner than will fill the case with fuel and hydro lock. Set the high-end needle adjustment only after the low end is set and the engine is completely hot using a temp gun and never exceeding a head temp of between 230 and 280 degrees also listening and watching for a slightly "grey" (not white) smoke. Once you have done this you should only ever have to adjust your high-end needle less than 1/4 of a turn depending on temp and humidity.

 

[ 12-17-2003, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: A-ron ]

[jrykrl]

Rekd, thanx for the info, un f-in beleivable!!

I went to the drags in Pomona a few years back, and the top fuelers just about knocked me off my feet when the light went green.

I'd like to pick your brain on my sandrail project. I guess that's another thread.

Jer

[A-ron1286490684]

Was always waiting for my segway into nitro RC cars in this forum. Wasn't trying to hi-jack your dragster thread Rekd but I figured there would be a few machinists who appreciated high-end nitro buggies in here. Maybe not.

 

I'd have some full size projects to brag about if I didn't live in a condo with no garage. For now my hobbies have to fit into a walk-in closet.

[M. Anderson]

I knew I liked REKD for some reason!

 

I go to every NHRA race, (time & wife permitting) in my area. Even been to Indy a few times.

 

There is nothing like the smell of "NITRO" in the air, as the race season starts on a fine spring day.

 

For all the un-initiated on this board you need to look up the 2004 NHRA race schedule and try and attend one local race in your lifetime. And by all means be sure when they call the NITRO Funny cars or the Top Fuel Dragsters to the line you are standing as close to the track as possible - you know - so you get the full EFFECT! - see below!

 

A short story:

 

I initiated my soon to be Father-in-Law at the Atlanta Dragway starting line, standing 20 or so feet away, as a friend was attempting to qualifing his T/F dragster for the race. (this was before my wife and I were even married) After Terry had done his burnout my "F-I-L" turned to me and said this is not too bad. He just had no idea! We had warned him! Really!

Terry staged and then "dropped the hammer", (if you ever go to a race you will know where that term came from), for his first pass.

My father-in-law's hat flew off his head (gone?), his glassed vibrated off his face - fell and broke, he bit his false teeth and broke them - when he opened his mouth to scream and they were vibrating out - he then complained his go-nads had swaped places, and was pretty sure his skin had disconnected from his bones - to top it all off he then proceded to tell my soon to be wife I was CRAZY - and he was not letting his daughter marry someone who thought that was FUN!

Needless to say he did not come back to the starting line the rest of the weekend!

 

Everyone needs to experience NITRO TOP FUEL RACING!

 

IT'S A REAL BLAST!!!!!!!!!

 

Mark Anderson

[jrykrl]

quote:

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I knew I liked REKD for some reason!

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Me too, cuz he weighs the same as me!!

Rekd,I freeze in the winter.

Jer

[Philcott]

It's been too long since I have been to the drags. Do the cars really run in 4.5 seconds? Under seven was fast in my day.

 

When I was 15-18, a few friends and I would hitch-hike to a small town in rural Quebec (St. Pie De Baggot)(SP) to spent the long weekend in August at the NHRA Molson Grandnationals at Sanair international raceway. In those days your ticket into the stands also got you into the pits where we would watch (and talk to) racers such as Don Garlits, Shirley Muldowney and Don Prudhomme work on the cars and chat with the fans. There was nothing like standing 6 feet away from a T/F dragster reving up after a rebuild and having the fillings in your teeth rattle. We were given used slicks to wheel home and all kinds of other keepsakes. One of my friends lives on a hill in the country and as you drive by, you can still see the tire he hung, 28 years ago, as a rope swing.

 

There were also many eye opening activities for a young man to experience in the attached campgrounds. We learn all about the three "B's" in the camps.

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B1 Babes

B2 Booze

B3 Bongs

 

That was a long time ago but I remember it well.

 

Phil

 

ps to you Seattle guys - do they still run the 64 funnycars weekend at your track?

 

[ 12-19-2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: PhilCott ]

[jrykrl]

Yeah, the ticket for the seat still gets you into the pits.

Your eyes burn when they fire up the cars and rev 'em.

Pretty cool

+1 on the 3b's

Jer

[Noel]

quote:

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Anyone into nitro R/C cars?

 

I used to have a nitro RC boat with a 3.5 cc outboard on a 32" deep v hull.Just for fun I used to run it on 45 % nitro man do they hum on the good juice.Used to top out at about 60 mph.Talk about twitchy.Then some scumbag stold it.I'd love to get a car though.

 

Noel

[Accu-Molder]

very cool reading rekd makes me want to get back to the track its benn about 4 years now M.Anderson I'm still laughing at your story damn thats funny

 

[ 12-19-2003, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Accu-Molder ]

[kccadcam]

Was going through some video archives of mine on RC cars, found this: FTP Mastercam_forumunspecified_uploads200+mph_nitro_cwh.wmv

unreal........