Prototype machine tool

[JMahon]

What would be you're dream machine for a quick turnaround prototype environment? Small to medium size medical parts.

[Colin Gilchrist]

A Hermle or a Datron.

[Cory M. Pio]

def something that can mill and turn probably a BUMOTEC S191

[Gracjan aka Pullo]

DMG DMU 60 or DMU 50 

[Newbeeee™]

What would be you're dream machine for a quick turnaround prototype environment? Small to medium size medical parts.

Turn mill - but it depends upon complexity of part to what type of machine.

It's also about standardised tooling - both holders pre-set and workholding.

[#Rekd™]

Colin I had a look at those Datron machines at IMTS and I was impressed.

[Watcher]

DMG DMU 60 or DMU 50

Last time I worked with a DMU it was not mecanically & termically stable for precision 3+2 work... They could not reliably hold a true position of 0.0005" no matter what we did... If we wanted to hold such tolerance we had to run their 3D calibration routines before each part and run a part immediately after that...

[gcode]

def something that can mill and turn probably a BUMOTEC S191

very cool

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn9G8laRa4c

[Newbeeee™]

Colin I had a look at those Datron machines at IMTS and I was impressed.

I looked at one for routing ally parts at work. Ohh, it would eat a HUGE volume of ally!

[JMahon]

What model hermle or Datron? Ball park price range? What reasons/features make that your pick?

[JMahon]

Whoa those bumotec machines are sweet! Any idea what one like that runs?

[#Rekd™]

The Datron machines are expensive but really solid. Granite tables.

[MrFish]

Last time I worked with a DMU it was not mecanically & termically stable for precision 3+2 work... They could not reliably hold a true position of 0.0005" no matter what we did... If we wanted to hold such tolerance we had to run their 3D calibration routines before each part and run a part immediately after that...

Yip, and we are in a temperature controlled workshop and still need to do this on critical components. Apparently the new machines are a lot better though. Ours only has a temperature probe on the spindle head where as the new version has 7 of them around the machine !

I'd still go Japanese , Okuma, Matsuura, if it was my money.

[Colin Gilchrist]

What model hermle or Datron? Ball park price range? What reasons/features make that your pick?

 

This is such an open ended question. I have no idea on price, because there are just so many options to consider. I'm sure they are expensive, but you also get what you pay for. 

 

For the Datron machines, I like them for their extreme accuracy. (They have models that maintain +- 5 Microns.) I would think the following models would be great for what you are doing:

 

• C5 - 5 Axis (100 mm Cube)
• M8 Cube
• M10 Pro

They use a Granite table for vibration dampening and thermal stability. Most of the machines have High Speed Spindles - 48,000-60,000 RPM. They have options for 4 Axis and 5 Axis. I have a friend that runs one of their 3 Axis M8 Cube machines, and raves about it.

 

The Hermle Machines are also top notch. You can get below 6 Microns for repeatability. 

 

• The C12 is their most compact 5X machine, 350 mm x 440 mm x 330 mm.
• The C42 U MT has Milling and Turning capability, and a large work envelope. 800 mm x 800 mm x 550 mm.

I don't think you could go wrong with either manufacturer. That said, I really like the look of those Blumotech machines as well.

 

I would think you'd need to budget a bare minimum of 300K for a "dream" machine, and that would be for a smaller machine. Fully equipped, with holders and work holding? Probably closer to 500K, or more.

 

Are you sticking strictly to cutting metals, or are you also going to be machining ceramics? If the answer is yes on the ceramics, you'll want a machine with grinding capability in addition to the regular milling. I would think for prototyping medical parts, that 5 Axis would be a must. Is this medical equipment, or surgical implants?

[JMahon]

No grinding needed. Just cutting metals and plastics.

I forgot to mention, 5 axis is definitely a must.

Would be for medical instruments and implants.

 

Thanks for the input guys! Just wanting to see what else is out there. It's so easy to get stuck using what you know.

[#Rekd™]

These are high end small 5 axis machines.

 

http://www.kern-microtechnik.com/en/machine-tool-manufacture/products/kern-micro/

[JMahon]

Also, who else makes sweet mill/turns like that Bumotec 191?

 

All I really know of is Willemin and Chiron

[Newbeeee™]

Also, who else makes sweet mill/turns like that Bumotec 191?

 

All I really know of is Willemin and Chiron

There's a load of Willemins in France and Germany. They really do look a sweet machine.

[Mjölnir]

the Hermle C42 MU mill / turn is in the $500K or more range, specifically about double that, un-tooled. 

[Colin Gilchrist]

the Hermle C42 MU mill / turn is in the $500K or more range, specifically about double that, un-tooled. 

 

I can't think of a better way to spend a million dollars, except perhaps unbridled hedonism. But that gets boring after a while. I don't think anyone with a C42U MU to play with would ever get bored...

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

What would be you're dream machine for a quick turnaround prototype environment? Small to medium size medical parts.

 

It's more the budget end than a "dream machine", but I'm doing that on a Haas VF-3SS with a TR160Y trunnion.  We put about $150k into it plus tooling and software.  Titanium bone plates and 17-4 H900 instruments.

[JMahon]

How do you like the tr160y trunnions? I've been eyeing that setup to put on a VF machine.

 

A little off topic but has anyone used the new small trunnions Haas just came out with?

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

It's working fine so far and about a year old now.  I only use it for 3+2 since our parts don't require any live five.

[jlw™]

Have you looked at Tormach?

[Colin Gilchrist]

I'd also put in a vote for something like the Matsuura MAM-72V. I like these for the integrated pallet pool, with zero point clamping. They have a good work envelope, are reasonably fast, and accurate. Same story with Yasda machines. Yasda is still hand scraping their machine ways, and fitting everything by hand. True craftsmanship.