Completely green..where do I start?

[kenbone]

I've been doing tech support for a medical software/hardware company for close to 5 years now. I've been interested in the manufacturing world for a while now especially the CNC aspect of it. This year I did some looking, and found a night class for CNC at a community college that works with my schedule. The end goal being to get into a shop and get out of a cubicle lol. The classes don't start till August but I wanna get my feet wet before hand. This is the course if you wanna see what im getting into http://www.nv.edu/Credit/Automated-Manufacturing-Engineering-Technology/Certificate-in-CNC-Machining

Big issue for me is I have no idea what the surrounding shops are looking for in regards to a skillset. The want ads typically dont specify. I've heard learn g code, learn Mastercam, learn solidworks, ect. Should I focus on them all or just one? 

 

Would this course be advisable for somebody who's never ran a manual machine before? https://www.emastercam.com/board/ecourses/ecourse/41-mastercam-2017-mill-essentials-ecourse/

 

Thanks in advance

[Machineguy]

First off, you need to tell us a general location of where you are at.

Second, you need to learn the machines FIRST, and what they can do. Learn the tooling, setup, and G-code. You wont make much to start, so be prepared for that. You got a lot to learn. Its up to you how fast.

Next you will have to find a shop that is willing to train you. That can be hard right now, but a lot of shops do need help, so keep a good attitude.

Take the classes on programming. learn to put the whole package together. Depending on how well you learn, expect to take several years, and possibly a few different shops that you will need to work at to see how thing are done.

Don't expect to program till you have some years under your belt on the machines.

If you make it this far, you will love the work.

MOST IMPORTANT. grow a thick skin, and be patient.

[Ewood42]

Machine experience is CRUCIAL. Learning how to properly set speeds and feeds is an art, approaching voodoo. After a while you don't really give it a second thought, but there are always a TON of factors to consider. Workpiece material, quality of said material, rigidity of the setup and the machine, part geometry, cutter geometry, depth/width of cut, coolant flow, finish/form requirements, are all factors in that equation (i'm sure if I gave it more than 10 seconds of thought I could double or triple that list, but you get the idea). The tool supplier catalogs will give you a good place to start, but treat those numbers as reference figures until you get a feel for it.

Learning G-code is important, but knowing how to tell the machine what to do is useless unless you have feeds/speeds and techniques figured out. The greatest strength of CNC machines is that they (barring mechanical issues) always do exactly what you tell them to do. The biggest weakness of CNC machines is that they (barring mechanical issues) do exactly what you tell them to do. You've probably heard this before, but garbage in, garbage out.

Like machineguy said, your best bet is finding a shop that will train you. Job shops can be a bit overwhelming, but can provide a wealth of experience due to the variety of work. Production shops will teach you less, as they tend to be very set in their ways and are often slow to try new concepts, but are probably a safer learning environment.

[Lord Wukits]

I volunteered as a backup with no experience about a year and a half ago, and what they say above is true. The programer hired, didn't know how to program, as such I struggle with approach/feeds and speeds. I think through trial and error have started refining how I approach projects now, largely in part due to this community, and a value added reseller[and our machine sales person] that has always gone above and beyond. Sofar, I feel I can keep on top of things with 5 axis, 3 axis, and lathe programing. *** was a decent online class, but most of my work is 5 axis, and the 5 axis course seemed really basic. 

Never hesitate to ask for help here. Do not fear about asking dumb questions, as the gods that help here feel all questions are dumb. 

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by DanielGingras
Competitor

[crazy^millman]

20 minutes ago, Lord Wukits said:

Never hesitate to ask for help here. Do not fear about asking dumb questions, as the gods that help here feel all questions are dumb. 

 

Sorry I disagree with that statement. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

[kenbone]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:02 PM, Lord Wukits said:

I volunteered as a backup with no experience about a year and a half ago, and what they say above is true. The programer hired, didn't know how to program, as such I struggle with approach/feeds and speeds. I think through trial and error have started refining how I approach projects now, largely in part due to this community, and a value added reseller[and our machine sales person] that has always gone above and beyond. Sofar, I feel I can keep on top of things with 5 axis, 3 axis, and lathe programing. CamInstructor was a decent online class, but most of my work is 5 axis, and the 5 axis course seemed really basic. 

Never hesitate to ask for help here. Do not fear about asking dumb questions, as the gods that help here feel all questions are dumb. 

 

I wish I could get into a part time gig somewhere on the weekends where I could get some real life experience. <Removed> I just grabbed a copy of G wizard's demo to see exactly what im getting myself into. Every single school I called for manual machine training is during the day (the downside of being full time employed lol). Tons of training meant for people out of work though during the day. 

 

Im just working on getting a grasp of stuff before I enter the classroom in a few months

 

I did speak to a recruiter for direct hire manufacturing jobs to get a feel and she said even with only just CNC programming they can find me employment with no issue's. Granted I will have to start at the lower end of the pay scale but I expected that anyways.

Edited March 24, 2017 by DanielGingras
Competitor

[crazy^millman]

5 minutes ago, kenbone said:

Granted I will have to start at the lower end of the pay scale but I expected that anyways.

With that attitude you will go far.

[kenbone]

I was gonna try to pick up a book or two before these classes get going. Any suggestions on what book to start with as a total noob? I saw this book http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/cnc-programming-handbook-peter-smid/1100495065?ean=9780831133474#productInfoTabs

 

Just wasnt sure if its meant for somebody starting from scratch??

[kenbone]

On 3/7/2017 at 10:45 AM, Machineguy said:

First off, you need to tell us a general location of where you are at.

 

Sorry I missed this question..Im in Connecticut

[jlw™]

On 3/8/2017 at 11:02 AM, Lord Wukits said:

 

Never hesitate to ask for help here. Do not fear about asking dumb questions, as the gods that help here feel all questions are dumb. 

 

 

LMAO!

 

He is specifically referring to j-peenus here.  LOL

[Guest]

16 hours ago, jlw™ said:

 

LMAO!

 

He is specifically referring to j-peenus here.  LOL

Hey, let's face it...dumb people don't suddenly get smart when they ask questions

[Colin Gilchrist]

You're close to Waterbury, correct? How far are you from Cheshire?

There is a great shop in Cheshire called EDAC Technologies, and they are always looking for machinists. I'd recommend contacting them, and asking what kind of experience they are looking for.

Programming is awesome, it's been a great career for me, but I also started at the "bottom" as a CNC Machinist, running the machines. You should get some experience running the machines before you would be ready to jump into programming.

You do need to learn G-Code. That is first and foremost. This is the language that is used to tell the machine how to move. While it can get complicated, the basics are pretty easy. There are only two basic modes: Linear and Circular. You are either cutting lines, or arcs.

The 4 codes you shluld learn first are:

G0 - Rapid motion. Move the machine as quickly as possible to a 3D point (from your current location).

G1 - Linear motion. Move to a 3D point, in a straight line, from your current location.

G2 - Clockwise motion. Specifies the Endpoint and Center Point of an Arc. Starting from the previous location.

G3 - Counter Clockwise motion. Same as G2, but rotation is in the opposite direction.

I would recommend any boom by Peter Smid. I have his Macro book. It is a great resource.

[kenbone]

38 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

You're close to Waterbury, correct? How far are you from Cheshire?

There is a great shop in Cheshire called EDAC Technologies, and they are always looking for machinists. I'd recommend contacting them, and asking what kind of experience they are looking for.

Programming is awesome, it's been a great career for me, but I also started at the "bottom" as a CNC Machinist, running the machines. You should get some experience running the machines before you would be ready to jump into programming.

You do need to learn G-Code. That is first and foremost. This is the language that is used to tell the machine how to move. While it can get complicated, the basics are pretty easy. There are only two basic modes: Linear and Circular. You are either cutting lines, or arcs.

The 4 codes you shluld learn first are:

G0 - Rapid motion. Move the machine as quickly as possible to a 3D point (from your current location).

G1 - Linear motion. Move to a 3D point, in a straight line, from your current location.

G2 - Clockwise motion. Specifies the Endpoint and Center Point of an Arc. Starting from the previous location.

G3 - Counter Clockwise motion. Same as G2, but rotation is in the opposite direction.

I would recommend any boom by Peter Smid. I have his Macro book. It is a great resource.

I never have heard of the place but it's a lot closer than my current commute to my job now. I'll have to contact them and see exactly what they would be looking for. Do you have experience at that place?

I spoke with one of the teachers and they do have you spend time in the shop using manual machines in the beginning. And i know they make you learn mastercam and also I believe G code I totally forgot to ask. Im gonna memorize the essential g code ahead of time. 

[Colin Gilchrist]

Yes, I've worked at EDAC. It is a great place to work. There is another member on the forum "Rob" who still works there in the programming department. They have really nice machines. High-end Mill-Turn and 5 Axis. They also have a kind of separate "Tooling" division as well. So there is a lot of opportunity there.

[kenbone]

 That would be really great considering the school I'm going to is in Waterbury. Maybe something works out you know. Been driving to Milford for the past five years from the Naugatuck  so something closer would be a nice change. 

 

I'll be looking more into this company for sure. Thank you for the suggestion. 

[#Rekd™]

Colin,

That shop uses Siemens NX or Mastercam?

Thanks

 

John

[kenbone]

One thing I was debating on doing was picking up a 3D printer for the pure learning experience. Didn't know if it was worth it though. 

Anything from the home 3D printer world carry over to the on the job skills of cnc programming??

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, kenbone said:

One thing I was debating on doing was picking up a 3D printer for the pure learning experience. Didn't know if it was worth it though. 

Anything from the home 3D printer world carry over to the on the job skills of cnc programming??

Not really no....With most 3D printing software you just import & position an stl....the software does the rest....

 

So besides maybe some design work, that would be it.

[kenbone]

Might hold off the 3d printer idea then. Not really in a position to buy one right now anyways if its not relevant. Pretty pumped though..signing up for classes next week. But I gotta wait till Fall semester which is gonna drive me nuts. 

 

Had some great insight from a buddies father who just retired from Sikorsky in CT. He was in the machining dept for around 30 years and he went from manual machining to learning and running CNC. This kind of stuff is definitely for me after speaking with him. 

 

For right now I grabbed my grandfathers old Micrometer and have just been practicing  lol. Will be looking around for machining jobs but i'm somewhat hesitant to apply with zero experience, id feel better if I have at least a few months of school under my belt first. I do have a line of a Aerospace place that's always looking for help and I happen to know a guy who's dad is in the company...would be great to get into there while going to school. If not its going to be a challenge balancing school and my IT day job (which requires after work support and traveling) but im determined to get into this field.

 

Thanks to everyone in here for advice and encouraging words...Any open source mastercam alternatives out there btw?

[Guest]

Oh,  I wouldn't be afraid to apply, just be honest about your lack of experience but desire to learn

There are many companies that need help and you might just find one willing to take a green person in.....especially if that person has the motivation to succeed...

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Guest

[htm01]

check community colleges , my co-worker teaches at QVCC in Ct at night.

i would take someone who wants to learn and has a work ethic over someone who thinks he knows it all and the job owes him.

[kenbone]

51 minutes ago, htm01 said:

check community colleges , my co-worker teaches at QVCC in Ct at night.

i would take someone who wants to learn and has a work ethic over someone who thinks he knows it all and the job owes him.

Gonna work on speaking to the teachers once i'm in there, good call I know a at least of few of them are employed during the day in the field. The job placement department is pretty good from what I have heard.

And i'm pretty humbled to be around experienced people in whatever field it may be, maybe its because im older (33) and have a family to support so I take it pretty seriously. I've seen it here first hand (some of)  the younger generation has entitlement issues to work on lol.

[kenbone]

Any chance this demo/trial software is somewhere else? It seems that the download link is broken.

Thanks everyone

 

[Guest]

I believe it is for Customers only....

 

ie, if you buy a book or something

Edited April 24, 2017 by Guest

[kenbone]

Got to mess around on a Bridgeport machine last night at a friends dads house. He is a long time machinist now retired who is more than happy to school me. Nothing crazy just ran a end mill over a block of aluminum a bunch of times, but its way easier to retain and understand when you are actually doing it. We went over speeds and feeling out the table if you're going too fast. 

Got some grants from the school to cover like 90% which was a shocker...possibly because im older (33) or because they want people to get into manufacturing. Either way ill take it and the classes are credit so this cert course can turn into a associates degree down the road. Once they post what books we need im sure it will come with a trial of software and ill be all over that.

If you guys have any suggestions for practicing core basics on a manual let me know so I can focus on them next week on the BPT Machine.