UMC 750

[Guest]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:40 AM, newbeeee said:

I have to laugh that Matsuur'a marketing call the MX330 an entry level machine...

Well, compared to a MAM72-35V it is an entry level machine.

Seriously though for only around 10% more than FAR lesser machines, you can have a fully outfitted 5-Axis machine with what you need to do 5-Axis right. (G43.4, G68.2, G54.4, G41.2/G42.2, 1,000 Block Look Ahead, Dataserver, etc..., etc..., etc...), from a company that's been doing it since the early 1990's instead of somebody that's been doing for about 5 seconds, and doing it WRONG for those 5 seconds. Just sayin'

  

[DavidB]

No Matsuura in Australia so no point 

[Guest]

There's no Matsuura dealer in Australia?

[crazy^millman]

6 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

There's no Matsuura dealer in Australia?

Nope we have been down this road when I tried to get a MAM-72 Sold there and Matsuura didn't feel comfortable supporting it. I was going to go through Selway, but the Customer went with a Mazak.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, 5th Axis CGI said:

Nope we have been down this road when I tried to get a MAM-72 Sold there and Matsuura didn't feel comfortable supporting it. I was going to go through Selway, but the Customer went with a Mazak.

 

 

Ima talk with someone about that.

[Greg Williams]

The nearest dealer is in NZ, That customer has 2 Mazak's now Ron.

[mikenaturalice]

On 4/18/2017 at 11:49 PM, Foghorn Leghorn said:

Well, compared to a MAM72-35V it is an entry level machine.

Seriously though for only around 10% more than FAR lesser machines, you can have a fully outfitted 5-Axis machine with what you need to do 5-Axis right. (G43.4, G68.2, G54.4, G41.2/G42.2, 1,000 Block Look Ahead, Dataserver, etc..., etc..., etc...), from a company that's been doing it since the early 1990's instead of somebody that's been doing for about 5 seconds, and doing it WRONG for those 5 seconds. Just sayin'

  

I am not familiar with those codes, I am assuming they are for DWO, TCP, and 3d length comp? On the UMC750 it is G254 for dynamic work offset (3+2) and G234 for TCP (full 5 axis) and G141/G142 for 3d length. I can say all those functions worked fine using a post from Postability (?). Got the post and full machine sim for xx (cheap relatively speaking). And it was gcode sim pretty sure as it went through the posting 'routine' before it ran the simulation. It also gave warnings about a C axis rewind, which the UMC handles with a parameter to make it do the shortest revolution back to zero point and reset the C to zero instead of unwinding 1000 degrees or whatever.

 

edit: Never had a crash with my machine and post (if you are wondering about the simulation factor).. just sayin'  

[Guest]

On 4/24/2017 at 3:40 AM, mikenaturalice said:

I am not familiar with those codes, I am assuming they are for DWO, TCP, and 3d length comp? On the UMC750 it is G254 for dynamic work offset (3+2) and G234 for TCP (full 5 axis) and G141/G142 for 3d length. I can say all those functions worked fine using a post from Postability (?). Got the post and full machine sim for xx (cheap relatively speaking). And it was gcode sim pretty sure as it went through the posting 'routine' before it ran the simulation. It also gave warnings about a C axis rewind, which the UMC handles with a parameter to make it do the shortest revolution back to zero point and reset the C to zero instead of unwinding 1000 degrees or whatever.

 

edit: Never had a crash with my machine and post (if you are wondering about the simulation factor).. just sayin'  

They are for TCP, TWP, WSEC, and 3D Tool Comp. I can create a number of situations where those functions WILL cause issues. The fact you have not seen them yet means just that. Until they fix some things in the machine software, many will.

Mach. Sim is still checking NCI as far as I can tell. Not the same. I'm happy for you that you have not had a machine crash. Crashes suck. They suck worse when they could have been avoided.  Just sayin'  

[Guest]

I heard yesterday that there IS a Matsuura dealer in New Zealand. I'm trying to find out who and where. 

[Greg Williams]

15 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

I heard yesterday that there IS a Matsuura dealer in New Zealand. I'm trying to find out who and where. 

http://www.gmtools.co.nz/

[civiceg]

Quote

I can create a number of situations where those functions WILL cause issues. The fact you have not seen them yet means just that. Until they fix some things in the machine software, many will.

Such as?

[Mick]

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 5:32 PM, Foghorn Leghorn said:

I heard yesterday that there IS a Matsuura dealer in New Zealand. I'm trying to find out who and where. 

Global Machine Tools. They have a few Matsuuras up and down the country. Adn they also sell Doosan. They push Siemens NX pretty hard. They're almost an NX reseller.

[DavidB]

Anyone like to comment who has one?

Chers

[FROZEN]

DMG, Index, and Okuma.  

[civiceg]

I have worked on and programmed 7 of them, what would you like to know?

[DavidB]

On 2017-4-29 at 10:16 AM, civicegg said:

I have worked on and programmed 7 of them, what would you like to know?

Finally thank you.

80% of my work is in Aluminium. How accurate are they? How rigid are they? Can the HAAS UMC750 machine Tool Steel and S.S? I see Titan is machining Inconel on a UMC 750.

 

[civiceg]

pm'd

[Colin Gilchrist]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 1:31 AM, Foghorn Leghorn said:

Mach. Sim is still checking NCI as far as I can tell. Not the same. I'm happy for you that you have not had a machine crash. Crashes suck. They suck worse when they could have been avoided.  Just sayin'  

Dave Thompson has been "hooking up" the Postability Posts to run the Simulation. That means that the Machine Simulation inside Mastercam is actually running the Posted NC Code moves inside the Machine Simulation. This gets the average user closer to 98% reliable Simulation than just verifying NCI code. All of the 5X motion is simulated. It is still the "cheap" simulation option, as you are only verifying machine motion. This means you aren't really simulating things like TWP, Macro Calls, or machine motion that is caused by M-Code. You still need Vericut or NC Simul for true "100% accurate" verification, but even those programs are only as good as the time you put into configuring them. (Or CAMplete, if running a limited range of machine brands.)

Still, for the average user, using Machine Simulation in Mastercam, that is "tied" to a Mastercam Post Processor, is far better than verifying NCI data, and is much cheaper than any of the other solutions I mentioned. I won't quote prices on here, since that isn't allowed, but I feel like Machine Simulation, tied to a Mastercam Post, is a great solution for the majority of 5X users that are out there.

So why don't we hear more about Machine Simulation inside Mastercam? I think this is due to only a few companies (IHS, Postability) offering the service. But it is available, and these companies do a great job of making it work with the tools available to them. The truth is that an advanced Mastercam user could hook this up themselves, if they knew how. The unfortunate thing is that the details of "how to hook the post up to the simulation", are not really advertised. This is due in part to the way that ModuleWorks structured the deal with Machine Simulation. In order to "hook it up to the post", ModuleWorks has come up with a policy of charging 50% of the retail cost of the "Machine Simulation Linking". This is really meant to not be an "end user" configurable item, as it is something that ModuleWorks wants to make money from. That is ideal for a 3rd Party Post Provider, like IHS or Postability, as they already have a business relationship with the Resellers, CNC Software Corporate, and now ModuleWorks.

 

 

[Guest]

If you're running a 5-Axis machine without 3D Tool Comp, TWP/CYCLE800 and/or TCP/TRAORI, you are NOT using your 5-Axis anywhere near it's potential.

[mikenaturalice]

On 5/1/2017 at 10:38 AM, Colin Gilchrist said:

Dave Thompson has been "hooking up" the Postability Posts to run the Simulation. That means that the Machine Simulation inside Mastercam is actually running the Posted NC Code moves inside the Machine Simulation. This gets the average user closer to 98% reliable Simulation than just verifying NCI code. All of the 5X motion is simulated. It is still the "cheap" simulation option, as you are only verifying machine motion. This means you aren't really simulating things like TWP, Macro Calls, or machine motion that is caused by M-Code. You still need Vericut or NC Simul for true "100% accurate" verification, but even those programs are only as good as the time you put into configuring them. (Or CAMplete, if running a limited range of machine brands.)

Still, for the average user, using Machine Simulation in Mastercam, that is "tied" to a Mastercam Post Processor, is far better than verifying NCI data, and is much cheaper than any of the other solutions I mentioned. I won't quote prices on here, since that isn't allowed, but I feel like Machine Simulation, tied to a Mastercam Post, is a great solution for the majority of 5X users that are out there.

So why don't we hear more about Machine Simulation inside Mastercam? I think this is due to only a few companies (IHS, Postability) offering the service. But it is available, and these companies do a great job of making it work with the tools available to them. The truth is that an advanced Mastercam user could hook this up themselves, if they knew how. The unfortunate thing is that the details of "how to hook the post up to the simulation", are not really advertised. This is due in part to the way that ModuleWorks structured the deal with Machine Simulation. In order to "hook it up to the post", ModuleWorks has come up with a policy of charging 50% of the retail cost of the "Machine Simulation Linking". This is really meant to not be an "end user" configurable item, as it is something that ModuleWorks wants to make money from. That is ideal for a 3rd Party Post Provider, like IHS or Postability, as they already have a business relationship with the Resellers, CNC Software Corporate, and now ModuleWorks.

 

 

Thanks Colin! I was never really sure, but I thought it was doing something* with the Gcode as it did the posting "routine" the same as posting the NC code before the simulation would start. And I would say I am a novice user of 5 axis. 

 

*something is as technical as I can be on that subject LoL

[crazy^millman]

On 5/1/2017 at 7:38 AM, Colin Gilchrist said:

Dave Thompson has been "hooking up" the Postability Posts to run the Simulation. That means that the Machine Simulation inside Mastercam is actually running the Posted NC Code moves inside the Machine Simulation. This gets the average user closer to 98% reliable Simulation than just verifying NCI code. All of the 5X motion is simulated. It is still the "cheap" simulation option, as you are only verifying machine motion. This means you aren't really simulating things like TWP, Macro Calls, or machine motion that is caused by M-Code. You still need Vericut or NC Simul for true "100% accurate" verification, but even those programs are only as good as the time you put into configuring them. (Or CAMplete, if running a limited range of machine brands.)

Still, for the average user, using Machine Simulation in Mastercam, that is "tied" to a Mastercam Post Processor, is far better than verifying NCI data, and is much cheaper than any of the other solutions I mentioned. I won't quote prices on here, since that isn't allowed, but I feel like Machine Simulation, tied to a Mastercam Post, is a great solution for the majority of 5X users that are out there.

So why don't we hear more about Machine Simulation inside Mastercam? I think this is due to only a few companies (IHS, Postability) offering the service. But it is available, and these companies do a great job of making it work with the tools available to them. The truth is that an advanced Mastercam user could hook this up themselves, if they knew how. The unfortunate thing is that the details of "how to hook the post up to the simulation", are not really advertised. This is due in part to the way that ModuleWorks structured the deal with Machine Simulation. In order to "hook it up to the post", ModuleWorks has come up with a policy of charging 50% of the retail cost of the "Machine Simulation Linking". This is really meant to not be an "end user" configurable item, as it is something that ModuleWorks wants to make money from. That is ideal for a 3rd Party Post Provider, like IHS or Postability, as they already have a business relationship with the Resellers, CNC Software Corporate, and now ModuleWorks.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. All about the money.

[DavidB]

Well we had our engineering expo here in Melbourne a few weeks ago and the HAAS 750 UMC SS was there. To me it seems light, I didn't like the swarf evacuation.

I fill a 40 gallon drum full of swarf in half an hour, I don't think the HAAS would cope.

I couldn't get an answer on machine accuracy. Tool change was quick. The controller functioned well.

There was also a Doosan VC 630 5AX very impressed nearly 13 ton of mahine for less than the HAAS.

What do you guys think about Hurco machines? Looking at a VMX42U-40ATC

[#Rekd™]

4 hours ago, DavidB said:

Well we had our engineering expo here in Melbourne a few weeks ago and the HAAS 750 UMC SS was there. To me it seems light, I didn't like the swarf evacuation.

I fill a 40 gallon drum full of swarf in half an hour, I don't think the HAAS would cope.

I couldn't get an answer on machine accuracy. Tool change was quick. The controller functioned well.

There was also a Doosan VC 630 5AX very impressed nearly 13 ton of mahine for less than the HAAS.

What do you guys think about Hurco machines? Looking at a VMX42U-40ATC

I can't say anything about that specific Hurco but I did go and look at their VMC machines recently and they were complete light weight junk IMHO. I always look at the gross weight of the machine to give an indication of how well it is constructed.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, DavidB said:

...What do you guys think about Hurco machines? Looking at a VMX42U-40ATC

 

[Tyler Hamlin]

I programmed/setup a umc 750 for about a year. I can tell you this much, its great for aluminum. Its horrible for inserted drills over 1.75, feed mills over 1.5, endmills over 3xd, and tapping anything that requires a little stank on it. The rotary is sooooo slow it makes my eyes bleed. I was doing a lot of 3+2 and opted for 3d paths over simultaneous due to the serious turtle mode. I think it is truly an entry level machine, with and extremely fragile spindle.