O/T Passion of the Christ

[Harryman]

quote:

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former clergy

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Clergy: does not = Believer

 

Former clergy: does not = closer to truth

[Jack Mitchell]

Writer James Carroll was born in Chicago on January 22, 1943. He has been a civil rights activist, antiwar demonstrator and a Catholic priest, but he left the priesthood in 1974 to concentrate on his writing.

The author has described his 1978 novel about Irish immigrants, Mortal Friends, which has sold more than one million copies, as "the book that gave me my career." He has also stated that his life and family have profoundly influenced his writing, which includes subjects as diverse as the Catholic church, the Vietnam War, the Boston Irish, the FBI and the Rosenberg spy case. However, it is his deeply-felt memoir, An American Requiem, the National Book Award winner, described by Robert Patton in the Washington Post as one of the "best memoirs of Vietnam combat" that is closest to his own life story.

 

Harryman, it's just that I couldn't recall the denomination, which I simply referred to as former clergy.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[camguy]

Quote :

"Harryman, it's just that I couldn't recall the demonination, which I simply referred to as former clergy."

 

DEMONination ? careful Jack, your horns are showing LOL

[Jack Mitchell]

Saved by the 15 min edit feature

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

Regards, Jack

[Scott Bond]

Hi all

I wasn't intending to see the movie, mainly

because I know the ending , I intend to

see it now.

[Kevangel]

"My Mom", pretty much "half dragged me" to church the first 18 years of my life, afterwhich I "turned 18" and the following Sunday promptly went motorcycle racing and never set foot in a church again...Sometime in my early 30's I was challenged as to "what I believe". I ended up putting some time into it, but decided I did not believe God existed, or that I would ever know for sure the "hows and whys" of it. My last act of Congress was to speak to an Unknown God.. that if he did exist, and there was a day of judgement He could not hold me accountable because I could not find him, and I was never going to waste my time again looking for Him, but I would go enjoy what time I have and have a good life. BUT, I said "if you are there I want to know . (I was DONE and content with that) Now I look back and marvel that He heard me and over a period of time, went to work with that.. My baptism is a miracle...sorry to ramble! Oh yeah the actor that portrays Jesus was struck by lighting while filming, The sermon on the mount part. He said he saw pink and it was like someone smacked him on both ears and his hair stood up like Don Kings, was in sundays paper (parade magazine 1 page interview)

[Hardmill]

Glad to see those who did get to see the movie

enjoyed it. I Myself have been a work as I stopped

going to church at about 13yrs of age and did'nt

find Christ until about 4 1/2 years ago. I attend

a Calvary Chapel in Whittier,Ca. Opening up Gods

Word and being taught verse by verse is truly what

I had been lacking all my life. I got to say I

walked all those years and never had a clue how

wonderful living life with our creator could be.

This was without a dought the single most important

decision I had ever made in my life. Nothing I

could do or give my children could come close

to a relationsip with Christ. I am truly blessed,

as are my wife and kids. My only regret is it had'nt

come sooner.

To know him is a relationship not a religion and

thats what drew me to him. Just wanted to share

a little about how I got here.

Feel free to e-mail me if you like.

Morningstar Christian Chapel

REV.22:16

 

GOD BLESS

 

PEACE

[Hardmill]

BTW guys thnks for replying.

And I mean all of you.

 

PEACE

[SledGeek]

quote:

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He writes a scathing review here.

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My only problem with this review is that it is Mr. Carroll's interpretation of the movie , and not neccesarily fact. Much like the bible(s) are interpretation of man, not necessarily the complete truth. I beleive in God and I don't need to beleive every last detail that comes down the pipe by thousands of years of interpretation, or bastardization.

We all know about man's ability to twist the truth into something that they may beleive, but isn't exactly true.I think this is where faith comes in.The most important thing is to welcome the truth-regardless what it is.

my.02

[beav700]

We were all monkeys not too long ago. There are hundreds of scientific discoveries and proof out there showing that earth and life on it is millions of years old and then there is one man who saw a speaking burning bush. I'm sorry. I just can't even understand how people can believe in the bible. I'm coming from very religious family ( two uncles are catholic priests , one in Canada and one in Poland ) and was dragged to church every Sunday. Half of my family wont talk to me because I didn't have a church wedding and I'm atheist. I think they are brain washed and blinded by their religion and I wont talk to them neither. Just last weekend, me and my wife went to Howes Caves upstate NY and in that cave alone there was enough proof to discredit any religion out there. The good new is that the new generation is more educated ( educated with correct history ) and religion is disappearing in US. There are 27000 fewer churches now then there ware in 1950 in US alone. Discovery channel has alot to do with that.

 

On that note, I will not see the movie.

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

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Why is all religion is only 2000 or 3000 years old. When we all know human beings have inhabitated this planet far longer than than. And if God really created us, shouldn't he if have let his presence be known 50,000 years ago .

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Well for one thing, the earth is only about 6,000 years old.

 

I feel sad for you that you have not been enlightened.

 

If you think that Science is correct and the earth is Millions of years old,..... well carbon dating flew out the window when Mt. ST Helens errupted and made petrefied wood that dated 50 thousands of years old in a few seconds.

 

Hardmill......I want to see it, but I will probably have to wait for the DVD.

 

 

Murlin

[beav700]

So earth is now only 6000 years old. This is getting better and better. Explain Grand Canyon that river eroded in 5 million years. There is no flood that can create something like that. It takes slow current for long long time to wash out solid rock like that. I wont even get into dinosaurs, mountain formation and continent splitting, coral reef, mile deep ice, crystal formation in caves, fossilized ocean life forms in the middle of the continent, etc. etc.

 

In my opinion religion was created to make people feel somewhat good about dying and create same type of law back where there was no Police. " You do something bad, you will go to hell". We don't want to think that when we die we go out like a bulb with no after life. This in the #1 reason why people turn into religions and start to attend church when they get older.

 

Like I said. Religion is disappearing in US and will be limited to somewhere between 5 to 10% by 2050. The amount of atheists more then doubled in last decade. When I was a kid, I remember a church buses driving through neighborhood and luring kids with candy and ice cream for a Sunday school to brain wash their week minds. Didn't work. The new generation is too smart for this. Religion is dropping faster than ever due to the technology and internet.

I know that most religions teach alot of good things and values but in most cases it makes people see through a tunnel vision ignoring everything that is not in some book or script. Just look at nations where religion dictates how a person should live. Look at Middle East. Except for Israel, most of them live in a stone age.

 

Here is the link in UsaToday.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2002/2002-03-07-no-religion.htm

 

[ 02-26-2004, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: beav700 ]

[Müřlıń®]

Ya Beave.....you can count it down to the exact day if you really want to

 

Of course, you have to believe in the Bible.

 

BTW, a water lazer can cut through solid steel in a few seconds.

 

A highpowered mud stream is as abrasive as anything..... who says the Grand Canyon had to be cut with a small trickle of water? Probably the same peeps who invented the carbon dating system

 

 

A wire with sand on it can slice through solid marble.

 

 

Murlin

[SledGeek]

I tend to agree with beav when it comes to science. However i am not atheist.

After all the science is what has us doing unbeleivable things on these cad/cam stations.

The same technologies are what brought us knowledge from the moon.

quote:

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Dig into a little history you will find out that cultures all around the world were making idols, buried their dead prepared for an after life, and other such religious rituals 10s of thousands of years ago.

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This is what leads me to beleive the earth is more than 6000 yrs. old.

Just curious where you got that from Murlin. Haven't read anything in depth enough to know who's guesstimate that is.

[beav700]

It's all about suface finish when it comes to cutting something with high power water flow or slow washing out effect. You should now something about surface finish being in this industry.

[Charles Davis]

Yeah, I'll make time to see it this weekend.

 

I'm not super religious, but I saw a scene that was awesome where he said something like, "We must love those who hate us, because if we only love those who love us, what merit is there in that?"

 

In these days especially, I think the world could well use that message. Maybe this will send a bit of calm and compassion around the world. That would be nice.

[CAM-mando]

Saw it tonight ... I am glad I did. To say I "enjoyed" it would be a bad choice of words. I can't really describe how I felt other than perhaps "Loved" ?

 

Mackius you should check it out. I'm sure you have seen many less factual movies that were cinematically inferior to this one.

 

CAM

[Jack Mitchell]

beav700,

 

"On that note, I will not see the movie."

 

I admire your candor

 

But here's the quandary - You have expressed an opinion and then state that you will not see this movie.

 

I believe you will be watching this movie. Believer or not, there is sure to be something achieved by enjoying a film and debating intent.

 

 

Respectfully Yours, Jack

[resjun]

HOly jack did you just wake up

[Jack Mitchell]

Yep,

 

I have a lot of work today before giong to work

[CAM-mando]

Hi Jack,

 

I read the review you linked to.

 

I really did'nt see the movie in the way the reviewer did. I think the depiction of the brutality was about what I had always imagined from what I have read (christian writings and otherwise).

 

If someone were to use this as the basis for anti semetism it would be quite a stretch. A christian (as I understand it) believes that the passion and all the events leading up to it were in fact GOD's will. Therefore to blame the jewish people of the time would be ludicrous let alone the people of Jewish faith 2000 years later.

 

And to address Mackius' question

 

quote:

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Besides if Jesus was truly the son of God, why didn't he show up 10,000 or 50,000 years earlier.

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Interesting question ...

 

The ancients were forever performing "Sacrafices" to try to please God. A quality sacrafice it was believed must include blood (Goat = Good / Bushel of wheat = bad). The old testament (whether you believe it or not) depicts a father who is "tested" by God to see if he will sacrifice his only son. At the last minute he is instructed by God NOT to do it.

 

Many things prophesised by the old testament were Fufilled by Jesus. The greatest of course that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son... the sacrifice of all sacrifices so to speak.

 

Mackius many of us have had a problem with "Church" and the whole judgement of Men's morality by other men thing. I know I do. But if you were to pick up a bible, one of those newer ones where Jesus' words are in red. And read the Red words. You will read a religion of love, peace, tolerance, healing, defense of the innocent (especially children), forgiveness, hope, and charity even self understanding. Jesus the man challanged a corrupt intolerant establishment of his day. Pretty admirable stuff even in the "natural" sense.

 

As for church ... I am grateful they rent out their basements

 

CAM teh "still seeking"

[Kevangel]

I was made in Gods image and think the idea "man came from a monkey is silly". Man is so clearly distinct from all other species. There is not even 1 subspecies even close. There are no monkies manufacturing crude bicycles and riding around on them ,if you see my point. As for evolution versus creation, there are lots of insightful books from both perspectives. Charles Darwin had said if it were ever found that the smallest basic building blocks were not "simple"(molecular type of "stuff") there would have to be a creator (master planner). I think it was around in 93 or 94 they could peer one more level down in molecular construction, and the constuction was profoundly complex. What I remember reading was they look like tiny machines?I am glad people are looking and thinking about these things. There are answers out there. Around Dayton, ohio they are building new churches like crazy and people are searching for answers. "I am amazed at how directly God leads me, His leading becomes an anchor point in my faith, that confirms his existance. It was a lack of faith that got the world into this mess(compared to what it could be) and it's your faith in God that will save you. Gods laws protect you and your family. do not steal, do not lie, do not commit adultry etc. They are to protect you..."

[EX-wccprogrammer]

I disagree with the evolutionists... To claim that all life evolved from a glob of 'goo' defies logic. Look at the complexity of even the simplest life forms... It's like taking all of the parts for a $500 pocketwatch, throwing them in a clothes dryer, and predicting that the watch will assemble itself and begin running with no further intervention. I think not.

 

Just my .02

[A-ron1286490684]

quote:

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How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

 

We thus arrive at a conception of the relation of science to religion very different from the usual one. When one views the matter historically, one is inclined to look upon science and religion as irreconcilable antagonists, and for a very obvious reason. The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events — provided, of course, that he takes the hypothesis of causality really seriously. He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little for social or moral religion.

 

A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable to him for the simple reason that a man’s actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God’s eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it undergoes. Science has therefore been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death.

 

It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees. On the other hand, I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the devotion without which pioneer work in theoretical science cannot be achieved are able to grasp the strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labor in disentangling the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who, surrounded by a skeptical world, have shown the way to kindred spirits scattered wide through the world and through the centuries.

 

Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that gives a man such strength. A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people.

---

Albert Einstein

[P_Scott]

Mackius and other Atheists,

 

Whatever your reasons for not believing in God, or in religion in general, consider this. You are a living being. How did you come into existence? Through a loving act of your parents. It may be biologically explainable, but it is truly a miracle that any of us is born. Let's forget about that for now. What about the oceans and the fish and other creatures of the sea? What about the birds in the air? The plants on the land. Everything that you see, feel, hear, in essence, sense around you didn't happen by accident. There's only so much that was made by Man. Who do you think made the rest of it?

 

Personally, I don't believe the world is only 6,000 years old. I also don't believe all organic beings happened as the result of one major "accident" billions of years ago. There wouldn't be as much diversity in life if that was the case. How many "accidents" do you think would've had to happen in order for us to have the 100,000's of individual living species on this one planet? Humans didn't evolve from Apes. Not even in a billion years could that have happened. I believe if that was the case, why would we have Apes today that are still on the same "evolutionary" track they were tens of thousands of years ago? For that matter, why aren't ALL animals as intellectually equal to ourselves? I mean why did we "evolve" so much faster than the others, given the same theoretical time period?

 

There are species that display some intelligence but they will never be at our level of intelligence without intervention. Why do you think that is? Were they just the random "stupid ones" that were left behind? If they are, why are they still around today? The answer is simple. They are that way because God made them that way. God made us just as every other living being on this Earth. This "rock" could've happened by "accident". It still deosn't explain where all the diverse life came from. That to me is all the proof I need of God's existence.

 

Think about it. JMHO