O/T Made in the USA

[Lars Christensen]

Yesterday I got a pair of "non brand" endmills in my hand, with the comment, "These endmill was cheap, and they cant be that bad, it sayes they are 100% Made in the US". I think that I have heard that there is very strict rules about working with carbide (grinding) in the US. So the companyes get the endmills from over seaes because it is a better grade of carbide. Am I right???.

 

And a side note:

I have also heard that when milling in plastic or aluminium you should use HSS endmills because they actully have a sharper edge. Am I right again???.

 

Any response would be highly appreciatet.

 

 

Thanks

Lars.

[jspangler]

Hi

Where'd you get them, Ebay?

 

Personally, I've found that whenever the grammar in the marketing is that bad, it is usually just a bit better than the engineering that went into making a bad copy of a good part.

 

But hey, that's just my experience.

 

I got my xxxx REAMED here on the forum once when asking for suggestions for cheap tools, and it stuck with me. You cannot make good parts with bad tooling. Period. Save money somewhere else.

 

Thanks

John

[mold100]

quote:

---

I have also heard that when milling in plastic or aluminium you should use HSS endmills because they actully have a sharper edge

---

I do not under any cicumstance like to use H.S.S.

for aluminum,its more abrasive than most tool steels, I use Garr aluminum tooling or ski-carbs only, unless special app.

 

Plastic, Thats differant coincident I am cutting some delrin right now I either use 2 Flute high speed of if I dont have any I will use the same carbide I use on aluminum, We dont stock any high speed, So if I get a plastic job with a little notice i will order some high speed steel.

[Lars Christensen]

Hi guy's

 

--------------------------------------

Where'd you get them, Ebay?

--------------------------------------

LOL, no I think some sales guy stopped by the front office.

I have never had a problem trying something new, and if it is cheaper, hey we are trying to run a buisness here, right?

If you take a look at our shelf were we stock spools of wire, you will find all kinds of brand names. Now when it comes to wire, there is onely like 5 places around the world they makes wire, then they just put different labels on, but we are actelly running with a low brand wire on our wires, and it is doing a better job than the recomended wire from Mitsubishi.

 

Now milling is so new to me, and I am not milling full time, so it is alittle harder for me to make a statement. I am milling D2, 420SS, A2 so I have a feling these endmills might not last long.

Our production in the other hand are running alot of aluminum and plastic.

 

Thanks for the response I will talk our production manager into try some HSS endmill next time we are running plastic, I asume they got to be cheaper.

 

Thanks

Lars

[P_Scott]

Lars,

 

quote:

---

I think that I have heard that there is very strict rules about working with carbide (grinding) in the US.

---

There is an excellent reason for this. It's health related. I used a micro-grinder for one shop I was in years ago. There seem to be carcinogenic properties in the dust that's generated from grinding carbide tooling. I didn't notice it but I was wearing a facemask similar to the paint masks and hopefully I didn't get enough to harm me. I wasn't grinding tools all the time either. HTH

[Jack Mitchell]

Try this little test out sometime.

Cut away at a block of soft cheese with HSS and carbide (DON’T try this on the machine) (simply hold the cutter in your hand).

Another test is to single point on a conventional lathe with a sharp HHS Toolbit and to take a .01” pass along the diameter.

Then take a carbide insert and imitate the condition.

 

I look upon HSS as the standard for sharpness.

I look upon carbide as a tool that both deforms and shears material – given that; I consider carbide to be 50% as sharp as HSS, and yes, there is also a performance gain of roughly 2 to 4 times the surface footage.

 

For plastics, aluminum, and graphite I prefer HHS, specifically Hanita TiCn (I don’t care for the TiAin) 2flutes are best for chip evacuation whereas four flutes will load, choke and ultimately snap.

 

Again, this is my preference for aggressive machining. I believe its International Cutter (USA) that makes some very wicked looking aluminum cutters.

 

Just my .02

 

 

Regards, Jack

[pno]

About mills ... Ho use MillMonster mills?

I try it and I obtain good rezults with it.

It's chipest compare with Titex or Sandvik(europe price) and I made more parts with it.

[Jack Mitchell]

Paul (pno),

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I was reading your reply and then realized that you are in Romania.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Gary]

So your bosses don't bring you crap that says made in macadonia or melasia and expect it to cut for f'ing hours on end. Or if cutting rhine cavities (half dia deep slots) on a mold and the cut time is 6 hours he brings you back one end mill and says let me no if you need more i'll go get ya some. Thats go purchase because god forbid we actually have any on the self. Sorry for the rant just one of those days

[Lars Christensen]

Peter, I hope you are going to be ok, would hate to loose you help and comments on this forum

 

Jack, I found a old piece of chesse in the refrigioater, that I will bring to work today, stinky stinky stinky

 

Gary, LOL, no I actelly work a place were managment listens when you speak. When they came and asked if we would prep our onwn blocks (because me and my co-worker, always was bitching)

it was a deal-breaker that we could have our own tooling draw. So far I have not had any problems when requested tooling, and production loves it, they can always come and borrow.

 

Guy's I verly apreciate your response, I owe you a round.

 

I think I will put my "Non brand endmill" to the test tonight in some 420 SS.

 

Thanks

Lars

[ScottyB]

Jack,

Ooops I missed the "DON'T" in your statement.

Cheddar makes some beautiful chips!!!!!

(2 flute insert cutter)

 

I think we're onto something here.

 

 

What can you expect...I'm from Wisconsin.

 

TGIF...I'm outta heeeeeeeeeeere!

[P_Scott]

Lars,

 

Thanks for your concern. I don't think there were any lasting effects. That could explain a few things however. LOL Far as I know, I'm the same person I was back then. Oh, except I didn't have as much fun then and I kept sneezing black dust on the Kleenex. Great times. Brings back memories. Not fond ones, just memories.

[Mike Mattera - TFM]

If you have a rigid setup and a tight machine, carbide is the way to go. When there is some vibration in the cut I like HSS w/ 5%-8% Cobalt. They hold a better edge than plain HSS and can take in interrupted cut better than Carbide.

 

As for cheap endmills: It usually means their "made cheaply". But these days you have to take a chance every now and then to see if you can save some money.

 

Mike Mattera

[crazy^millman]

If did it like I do and set up agreements with your local suppilers give me a dicount and I will stay loyal to you. If you do this right and keep them on their toes just as a double check it works out real good. I know it is about about the bottom line and tried to stay out of this thread but I would never buy anything off of ebay unless I could hold it in my hands first. I think it is all a matter of choice but when I can get tooling that is good and can last that to me is the most important. You start talking about a .0625 endmill with a .5 relief I will take carbide in plastics and day of the week.

[TheePres]

Give them a shot, if they work for you by all means save your company some money, think "trickle-down" effect on profits.

I have been cutting 6-2-4-2 Titanium non stop for 7 mos, and have discovered a cheap carbide source that performs satisfactory. They are Monster Carbide Tools.

[Lars Christensen]

Millman, I agree I would never buy "non brand" cutters from ebay.

From what I understand you are runing some very complex parts, with alot of time into them, then I would also run with a "good quality" cutter.

 

Sadly my runs are not long what makes it hard for me to do real good tests, but I ran my "non brand" 1/2 cutter in 420 SS with 1140rpms 6.8ipm .094 doc with about 1/4 radial. My counter on the Haas said the tool ran for 1 1/2 hour, and it ran fine (23% spindel load).

 

Lars

[Mike Mattera - TFM]

Ron, You might be surprised what you can find on Ebay. I sold some really nice, brand new Fette endmills (1/2" + 3/4"). Very high quality German stuff. They we cobalt and TiN coated. Very expensive if purchaseed new. I think they went for like $5-$6 each.

 

Mike Mattera

[Lars Christensen]

Mike,

I would not have a problem buying a "brand name" cutter from Ebay. But to be honest if I had a $5000 milling job, I would probely not jump on Ebay to search for cutters.

 

Lars

[Müřlıń®]

If you are going to use HSS, just stick with 6% cobalt, non coated, and make sure they have a good grind on them. Some of the cheaper cutters have a rough finish on the relief grind and it causes chips to stick.

 

Premium HSS Cobalt will cut aluminum as good as it cuts that chedder cheese

 

 

That gold coating they put on HSS cutters is like sand paper, very abrasive.

 

 

Murlin