Best Extended Reach Tools for Milling?

[Leon82]

34 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

My question was more regarding the actual "angle" of the tool deflection. From my experience, I find that if I take a heavy enough chip, I get deflection, and a tapered wall.  Using radius comp will just move the position of the taper.  Sometimes it seems like a spring pass is the only way to get rid of that taper, which can sometimes result in a bad finish.  

So asking questions isn't allowed anymore?  In my opinion, that mindset, is part of why this is becoming a lost art.  

i usually use a stub flute and have to step it down

[cruzila]

2 hours ago, JB7280 said:

So asking questions isn't allowed anymore?  In my opinion, that mindset, is part of why this is becoming a lost art.  

Not at all, I see guys asking questions all the time. I get questions in my shop from the guys by the minute. On things that should be learned in the first year. What you hear me expressing is frustration.

1 hour ago, JParis said:

In come cases, perhaps...in most cases, it's people that don't care to learn, can't learn of don't give enough of a crap to learn.

Certainly, true, but also, guys learn enough to be dangerous and then know it all. There are a ton of scenarios.

[Aaron Eberhard]

2 hours ago, JB7280 said:

My question was more regarding the actual "angle" of the tool deflection. From my experience, I find that if I take a heavy enough chip, I get deflection, and a tapered wall.  Using radius comp will just move the position of the taper.  Sometimes it seems like a spring pass is the only way to get rid of that taper, which can sometimes result in a bad finish.  

So asking questions isn't allowed anymore?  In my opinion, that mindset, is part of why this is becoming a lost art.  

Gotcha.  Yeah, that's certainly a problem.    Like Leon, I'd recommend going for a small enough contact patch (flute/insert length), and a shallow enough stepover that the individual scallop characteristics aren't a problem for you.   

In a real bind, go for finishing switch to something like a full radius-slot cutter/lollipop so you're using a ball to side-mill and then at least you have even & round scallops to deal with which makes getting a consistent surface finish easier.

 

Another thing to note for anyone else reading this, is if you use HSM advisor, it will tell you pretty accurately what deflection is for long tools:

This is a .625" endmill sticking out 6.0" taking a .005" cut in 1018 steel for example.   I've used this to pre-adjust when my tolerances were +-.0005" and hit it pretty well, but I wouldn't trust it down to the tenth due to physics and the nature of reality

However, that doesn't help if you're using modular tooling because it's not a consistent deflection, and a lot of times it's not so much deflection as chatter that you're fighting, which is why the Sandvik silent tools are so amazing for their damping characteristics. 

 

[JB7280]

42 minutes ago, cruzila said:

Not at all, I see guys asking questions all the time. I get questions in my shop from the guys by the minute. On things that should be learned in the first year. What you hear me expressing is frustration.

Certainly, true, but also, guys learn enough to be dangerous and then know it all. There are a ton of scenarios.

A problem I have, is in my shop, it's go go go, I end up resorting to methods that may not be the best way, but a way that works well enough.  Seems like there's never time to try to improve it, or maybe just not the right people around to learn from.  

[JParis]

Just now, JB7280 said:

A problem I have, is in my shop, it's go go go

ie, never have time to do it right but always find time to do it again

[JB7280]

Just now, JParis said:

ie, never have time to do it right but always find time to do it again

Right.  I got some quotes for training from Ron, and a few other people, so myself, and the other programmers could be more efficient, and make better parts, faster, and I was told we don't have time for a week of training.  

[cruzila]

7 hours ago, JParis said:

ie, never have time to do it right but always find time to do it again

Third times a charm!!!

[crazy^millman]

8 hours ago, JB7280 said:

Right.  I got some quotes for training from Ron, and a few other people, so myself, and the other programmers could be more efficient, and make better parts, faster, and I was told we don't have time for a week of training.  

Then I purpose we do a time study on some projects. We then offer them the option give me 10% of what I help them save for one year or pay for a week of my time. Every company that I have offered that to has never once given the 10% I have saved them. I have saved companies well over $100 million over the years of doing this. Still saving one customer $10 million a year that cheated me out of 400 hours back in 2017. Time reduction one one project was 5000 hours of assembly time per rocket and they are launching one about every week. Sad part is I wish I was making this stuff up. It drives me crazy to see waste and un-efficient methods and processes.

Biggest reason I am the crazy millman is how crazy this profession makes me.

[JB7280]

18 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Then I purpose we do a time study on some projects. We then offer them the option give me 10% of what I help them save for one year or pay for a week of my time. Every company that I have offered that to has never once given the 10% I have saved them. I have saved companies well over $100 million over the years of doing this. Still saving one customer $10 million a year that cheated me out of 400 hours back in 2017. Time reduction one one project was 5000 hours of assembly time per rocket and they are launching one about every week. Sad part is I wish I was making this stuff up. It drives me crazy to see waste and un-efficient methods and processes.

Biggest reason I am the crazy millman is how crazy this profession makes me.

Hm, I just may propose this to them.  

[Aaron Eberhard]

19 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Then I purpose we do a time study on some projects. We then offer them the option give me 10% of what I help them save for one year or pay for a week of my time. Every company that I have offered that to has never once given the 10% I have saved them. I have saved companies well over $100 million over the years of doing this. Still saving one customer $10 million a year that cheated me out of 400 hours back in 2017. Time reduction one one project was 5000 hours of assembly time per rocket and they are launching one about every week. Sad part is I wish I was making this stuff up. It drives me crazy to see waste and un-efficient methods and processes.

Biggest reason I am the crazy millman is how crazy this profession makes me.

Hah, I tried that with two customers that were hemming and hawing about paying for training after you and I talked about it...  Both of them decided that it seemed like a more profitable bet to just pay me for X days of training.   I was disappointed.  But like you and I talked about, it's hard to trust that they'd actually pay out anyway.

[#Rekd™]

19 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Still saving one customer $10 million a year that cheated me out of 400 hours back in 2017. Time reduction one one project was 5000 hours of assembly time per rocket and they are launching one about every week.

We won't mention their name here or on X!!!!!

[crazy^millman]

42 minutes ago, Aaron Eberhard said:

Hah, I tried that with two customers that were hemming and hawing about paying for training after you and I talked about it...  Both of them decided that it seemed like a more profitable bet to just pay me for X days of training.   I was disappointed.  But like you and I talked about, it's hard to trust that they'd actually pay out anyway.

Remember I am the crazy person in the room.

[Jake L]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:09 PM, crazy^millman said:

Then I purpose we do a time study on some projects. We then offer them the option give me 10% of what I help them save for one year or pay for a week of my time. Every company that I have offered that to has never once given the 10% I have saved them. I have saved companies well over $100 million over the years of doing this. Still saving one customer $10 million a year that cheated me out of 400 hours back in 2017. Time reduction one one project was 5000 hours of assembly time per rocket and they are launching one about every week. Sad part is I wish I was making this stuff up. It drives me crazy to see waste and un-efficient methods and processes.

Biggest reason I am the crazy millman is how crazy this profession makes me.

I just got asked to speed one of our high quantity jobs. I was figuring ROI on a couple options and started a discussion with my boss about our shop rate. He said "If you cut 10 minutes off the runtime you save $x on this lot, 20 minutes $x * 2." My response, "can I get 5% of that in my paycheck?" He laughed and told me if that's how it worked he would've retired a long time ago.