Is it just me, or is Tool Manager kinda... lacking?

[RecceDG]

I've just started XMas leave so I have 3 glorious weeks to play with tools, and the final parts for my CNC conversion of my bench mill came in, so I'm doing my homework and setting up Mastercam for use with the new machine.

Part of that is setting up the tool library in Mastercam and Mach 4 and labeling assemblies.

So I modeled my toolholders in Solidworks, exported them to STEP files, used Tool Manager to import them as holders. 

Then went through all my tools, created those.

Then finally created assemblies using the definitions. T1 through T13, all GTG (I have a drill chuck, a shell mill, and an ER collet holder that I'll do later)

So I have spent more than a couple of hours in Tool Manager learning how it works and setting up my tools.

And... I'm a little underwhelmed by the granularity of the data it stores and the usefulness of the data relationships.

Like, it has the ability to select "roughing", "finishing", or both, and set Ap and Ae as a percent of D... but not separate feeds and speeds for roughing and finishing.

I can go into the stand-alone tool manager and define cut parameters and materials... but I can't tie them to either tools or assemblies?

Changing the tool data doesn't update the related assembly?

I should be able to, in tool manager, be able to say "when using this tool to rough slot 6061, Ap is 1D, Ae is 1D, SFM is 1000 and Fz is 0.003"/tooth. When rough shoulder cutting 6061, Ap is 3D, Ae is .5D, SFM is 1200 and Fz is 0.0035"/tooth" and so on - and then creating a new toolpath should pull these values from the tool DB.

Specify cut data per tool, per material, per roughing/finishing, per slotting/shouldering/facing etc.

Am I missing something?

I feel like I have to start a notebook with a page per tool that records cut data, because Tool Manager can't do it.

Am I wrong?

[SlaveCam]

It is awful.

The typical reasoning is that Mastercam is a CAD/CAM, not tool management software. So not much effort has been put into it (for example I never use materials due to the way it was designed).

You should look into HSM Advisor, Wintool, Zoller et cetera. and the mcam integration they offer.

A typical way to deal with the issue is to have separate tool library for each material, or better, operation library that have valid speeds and feeds for the given operation and material.

[cncappsjames]

There are two ways to handle S/F with tools. From Tool and from Material. You specify this in the Job Setup. 

There is far more granularity there. You set up your base/general data in the tool then in material you can do more, by operation type and condition.

I don't use material much because generally what I do... it would not help my efficiency. 

Give it a look. It may help you.

[Fred @ Slate Industries]

I have over time built 

P20

S.S.

Hard Cut

Graphite

Aluminum

Libraries.....

It works , we use Garr and OSG

Holders are spot on already from MC 

[CEMENTHEAD]

On 12/17/2022 at 4:18 PM, SlaveCam said:

It is awful.

The typical reasoning is that Mastercam is a CAD/CAM, not tool management software. So not much effort has been put into it (for example I never use materials due to the way it was designed).

You should look into HSM Advisor, Wintool, Zoller et cetera. and the mcam integration they offer.

A typical way to deal with the issue is to have separate tool library for each material, or better, operation library that have valid speeds and feeds for the given operation and material.

not so much effort put into the CAD part of your CAD/CAM either. I'd say mostly 98% CAM.

[JoshC]

1 hour ago, CEMENTHEAD said:

not so much effort put into the CAD part of your CAD/CAM either. I'd say mostly 98% CAM.

But some of the CAD tools mastercam has are incredibly useful for CAM purposes, like for example, i looked all over the place in my solidworks to find something to do what Mastercams Wireframe Turn profile tool does, that tool spins a part and outputs a simple profile that represents the high point of the profile, so it basically gives you the exact shape to turn a part to on a lathe type machine even if there are complex cutouts in the profile, dont get me wrong im not a solidworks expert so perhaps the tools just hiding really well in solidworks somewhere and perhaps i just never found it, but things like that is where mastercams cad tools are amazing, we have cad tools in mastercam that make CAM much easier. There are many other areas in mastercam CAD where our mastercam cad tools can do a better job for a manufacturing process than a CAD software, the turn profile tool is just the first example that comes to mind

[JParis]

You can call Mastercams "CAD" tools many things....."amazing" isn't one of them...

Rudimentary & basic are more accurate.

[JoshC]

8 minutes ago, JParis said:

You can call Mastercams "CAD" tools many things....."amazing" isn't one of them...

Rudimentary & basic are more accurate.

if mastercams cad tools are rudimentary and basic can your CAD software that is not rudimentary or basic do what i show below? 

Just curious because thats super easy with mastercams cad tools, Im not saying other cad softwares cant do this because i dont know every cad software out there but what im saying is mastercam has some cad tools that are really amazing because the people that make mastercam understand that our customers often times also like to then use CAM, so some of the mastercam CAD tools are no slouch, look at model prep tools alone...

 

[JParis]

Just becasue you can pick a specialized function or 2, it doesn't make their CAD tools good.

I make my living using this tool and I'm just calling a spade a spade. I sued to bark at our sales guy too while sitting in a demo and he's selling like it's a full blown CAD system...I'd say to him in the car, "greeat, but I have to support this and it ain't that"

 

[JoshC]

25 minutes ago, JParis said:

Just becasue you can pick a specialized function or 2, it doesn't make their CAD tools good.

I make my living using this tool and I'm just calling a spade a spade. I sued to bark at our sales guy too while sitting in a demo and he's selling like it's a full blown CAD system...I'd say to him in the car, "greeat, but I have to support this and it ain't that"

 

haha makes sense and i understand Jparis, at least its clear to me that CNC software has been really putting a lot of time and effort into improving the cad portion of mastercam because each release in the past few years has had some great new tools offered, some of its subtitle changes like when they released mitered corner support for Sweep solid or sweep twist and things like that that might slip under the radar for a mastercam user and now with 2024's solid position coming out soon, so I cant give them too hard of a time in the CAD area because its getting better and better each release so at least our and your concerns about cad are not falling on deaf ears

[crazy^millman]

I have to disagree with rudimentary or basic. I have modeled in Mastercam for 20+ years and only a handful of times I couldn't get it done. Not a full blown CAD I can agree, but for what is does and what I can do with it it has served me well.

[JParis]

7 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

I have modeled in Mastercam for 20+ years and only a handful of times I couldn't get it done.

It's not about getting it done, I too have "gotten it done" it's the tool set...the basic 2D CAD to this very day is not much beyond where Autocad was was back in the 90's.

That just is...

[RecceDG]

1 hour ago, JoshC said:

 so I cant give them too hard of a time in the CAD area because its getting better and better each release so at least our and your concerns about cad are not falling on deaf ears

Well with Mastercam for Solidworks going away (!) I can see them wanting to improve the CAD side to make Mastercam more of a single-solution, where right now its more Solidworks for CAD and Mastercam for CAM.

Which makes the tool management shortcomings more baffling.

I get that Mastercam doesn't want to be tool inventory management, but you'd think there'd be an easy way to associate feeds & speeds, by material and cut type, to individual tools.

[cncappsjames]

11 minutes ago, RecceDG said:

..you'd think there'd be an easy way to associate feeds & speeds, by material and cut type, to individual tools.

You mean like this;

And this?

 

[RecceDG]

2 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

You mean like this;

Doesn't work. It applies blanket parameters by material with no tie back to the tool.

It should be tool number AND material AND cut type, not tool number OR (material AND cut type).

My tools have different flute counts, helix angle, rake angles - you can't just call them "carbide" or whatever.