Haas with scales

[ATG]

Does anybody have scales on there haas mills? We have a vm3 with out scales and it’s been nothing but problems. The z axis has varied throughout the day .0045 the haas factory told us it should only vary .0005. We’ve had countless tech's out and they all shake there heads. Is anyone else having this problem? They replaced just about everything they could. Now they say we should have put glass scales on this machine. When we bought the machine the sales guy told us not to worry about the scales we shouldn’t need them to hold .001 and besides it would fight the high-speed machining option. Anybody else is having these problems........

 

 

Thanks in advance......

[chris m]

I don't have scales on mine and I don't do particularly fussy work on it, so I don't have a direct answer to your question. If the factory says it shouldn't be doing what it is doing then I would tell them to come get the f_ing thing and give you a machine that's right. Putting scales on a Haas is like lipstick on a pig to me, especially on a relatively small machine like that, and you'd be better served investing that money in a higher-quality machine without the scales. That being said, my HFO was trying to sell me a machine that was "Super Tuned" which was supposed to be as good as a Japanese machine out of the box; did they try any of that sh!t on your machine? I assume the machine isn't sitting right in front of a garage door, or a huge window, or something else causing a huge temperature swing.

[gcode]

Do you run it without coolant flowing??

Haas cools thier spindles with coolant flowing around it.. If you're cutting dry, your spindle is heating up..

If you need to run dry.. rig up a hose so the

coolant can flow through the head, back into the tank without splashing all over the table

[ATG]

The room is climate controlled and yes we run the coolant. This growth happens with out the spindle turning. This was their test with a laser and also a indicator mounted to the table with the z axis moveing up and down. I'm not even talking about the spindle warming up. Not only that weve had three spindles, one mother and numoruse boards replaced. Oh by the way the machine has less than 65 hours of cutting time. for each spindle break in thats five hours, tottaling 15 hours which means really we only have 50 hours of machine cutting time............

[Troy Gossett Indepak Inc.]

How new is your machine? I would contact HAAS customer service in Oxnard directly. We have 3 HAAS machines here from 11 - 4 yrs old all of which hold tolerance better then HAAS specs, and none have glass scales.

[ATG]

Well weve had it for four months now but, its been down allot. It looks like they just unloaded it from the truck......

[ToolMan184]

Then they would unload me another one. Or all sorts of HELL would be raised.

[gcode]

Looks like you've got yourself a real fine anchor

[ATG]

Just my Luck.......

[Kevangel]

I would ask for a new one, sounds like something is really wrong with it (mis-alignent or bad casting ) with all the spindle problems on top of that...If your dealer is not receptive, I would go to a higher up at the factory. It can't pay its way if its not running, I would be getting very very firm, if you are getting the song and dance after that go talk to a lawyer and get it straightened out. Not a time to be bashful.

[chris m]

Haas is not alone in this type of thing, we had an Okuma & Howa [$165K] delivered back in the late '90s [without scales because it "didn't need scales for your parts"] and they played with it for a year before they took it back and delivered another one [still without scales, and we walk the tolerance line because of it]. After that we bought a Mazak Integrex 300SY [$350K+] and they ended up playing with THAT machine for a year on our floor after nearly a year on theirs before that piece went back on the trailer.

 

With all of your problems on a new machine I would tell the HFO that they need to replace the machine immediately or that you will file a lawsuit against them because of their unwillingness to make right on the contract between your company and theirs. You spent tens of thousands of dollars on their machine and the machine should be right; they aren't doing you a favor by giving you a good machine, they OWE IT TO YOU and often I feel that the machine-tool builders and their distributors forget that.

[TR Mfg.]

All that and it only has 50hrs on it. You have got be kidding me! That junk would be gone...

[Newbeeee™]

Don't they still offer their 'uptime' guarantee?

If so, it just adds more weight to getting it swapped out.

Something is fundamentaly wrong. Afterall, they really wouldn't be in business if all their machines were that bad???

[MIL-TFP-41]

Have them check the ballscrew tension....I have seen that one before

[peon]

Our new VM3 has been serviced SEVERAL TIMES!!! But I never had an accuracy issue and we don't have the scales. I'm usually within a couple tenths on the Z axis repeating. I agree with the previous posts about being firm with the dealer. It's usually not a good idea to be "friends" with your dealer until the machine is running properly. Frankly, I'd demand a new one and don't give in.

[ATG]

Thanks guys i think i know what my answer is.

[Guest]

Ok, so now the seriousness of the thread has been determined, I'll ask what EVERYBODY knows I have been waiting, patiently, mind you.

 

quote:

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Haas with scales

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why????

 

[TR Mfg.]

I would check the coupler between the servo motor and the ball screw, the cap and plate that holds the thrust bearings, and the ball nut. Then again on a machine with 50hrs on it I wouldn't do a thing.

[DLG]

I have a new vf3, we purchased new in 08. We have had a few problems with it, I was on the phone with haas HFO when we had a problem, and they fixed the problem, no questions asked.

We had a spindle go bad in 40 hours, they replaced it. The haas is a very nice machine.

 

As far as your Z problem, Tell them to fix it, if they can't fix, bring you a new machine, no questions asked. They are feeding you a bunch of crap telling you, you need scales. My machine holds a tighter tolerance than Haas specs it at.You paid alot of money for the machine,and make them fix it, don't be the nice guy on this issue.

[dvaliket]

We bought a new VM3 around Thanksgiving 2006 and do not have glass scales with no z accuracy problems. It almost never gets a day off and the only problems we have are with the control software and coolant spraying out the top of the machine. That being said, the last machine we got was a DMG and we plan to get more DMG's.

 

You certainly shouldn't have to tolerate that, because you can't, they should stay right on it and fix it or replace it. Saying you should have gotten scales is 20/20 hindsight bull**** and has nothing to do with fixing whats wrong with the machine.

 

Dave

[Thad]

quote:

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Haas cools thier spindles with coolant flowing around it

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They don't use the same coolant from the coolant tank, do they? I wouldn't think that would be a very good idea. Fadal uses a closed cooling system with Dow Frost. I wouldn't want nasty a$$ coolant running through the innards of my machine.

 

Thad

[gcode]

quote:

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They don't use the same coolant from the coolant tank, do they

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Yes.. the heastock is hollow and the spindle cartige runs through it..

The coolant comes in one side of the headstock

and exits the other..

If you don't run coolant your spindle will run hot..

They may do it different now, but that is how the

VF1 and VF2 I ran in the late 90's were set up..

[chris m]

Nope, they do it the same way now. I think that a 'real' spindle cooler may be an option, but the standard setup is using the cutting fluid to cool the spindle. My VF-2 spindle still runs hotter at 7500 than my ZPS/Okuma at 8000 with no cooler...

 

As far as the "why scales on a Haas?" question, I can see it on the bigger machines [like a VF-5 or larger] to give yourself some modicum of accuracy, but on a 40X20? NFW you should require them for the accuracy he's looking for.

[Kevangel]

quote:

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Now they say we should have put glass scales on this machine.

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By the way, they are jerking you around on this instead of fixing it...Don't let them manipulate you, be firm as long as you can, then start looking into legal action. Sometimes a letter from an attorny will get their attention more.

[ATG]

I'll find out today what they intend to do. I'm not satisfied with glass scales. They said they would pay to have the glass scales put on in the z axis. I would rather have them send out a new machine. There's a real problem with the machine and everyone says the same thing. Wow i've never seen that before, From the sales guy right through all the tech's.