New Haas, what are my rights?

[Bob W.]

I recently took delivery of a new Haas VM3 and it makes a funny noise (vibration, like a low groan) as it rapids to the home position. It is very noticeable and I can feel it through the floor when it happens. I have not yet paid for this machine nor do I plan to until this issue is resolved.

 

Haas says they will extend the X-axis ball screw warranty for one year and I am not comfortable with that. I have a VF2 that has been nothing but problems over the last three years and I am not prepared to live with more of the same with the new machine. What are my options? Can I send it back? I took delivery on 10/20/08.

 

Thanks,

Bob

[Thad]

quote:

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I have a VF2 that has been nothing but problems over the last three years and I am not prepared to live with more of the same with the new machine.

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Why did you buy another one? Not trying to bust your chops...just wondering. Was it the price?

 

Thad

[Lars Christensen]

I am sure Haas will take it back, but in all fairness you probably should pay for transport, install, transport, rent of machine and restocking charge.

If you buy a brand new car and after 2 weeks the fuel pump fails, would you send the car back or be satisfied by getting a extended warranty on the fuel pump?

[Bob W.]

I am completely open to fixing the problem and if it can be fixed I am all for it. Fixing this would be my overwhelming preference but their response is "it should be fine, we will extend the warranty for a year just in case it isn't". I should not have to settle for that with a brand new machine. If I bought a new car for $100,000 and the engine made some groaning noises that didn't sound right, no, I would not settle for an extended warranty. I would want it fixed or replaced.

 

I am a little gunshy because I DID settle for that with my VF2 and it has been 3 years of problems and crappy parts. I bought another Haas because I have a Haas trunnion and I wanted them both to be compatible. I was very close to going with a Toyoda.

[Bob W.]

Another concern is that this problem will manifest itself in 2-3 years and the cost will be new linear ways, servo, and ball screws totalling $10,000 and a week of down time.

[iowajim62]

Have you tried slowing down the rapid to 25-50% and still get the grumbling ? If so that sounds like the Y axis drive that had to be replaced on a Haas VF2SS that I was involved with last year. They tried adjusting servo parameters with no luck and finally replaced the servo drive board. That grumbling sound almost always indicates that it's trying to get the encoder synced with the servo drive which is sending faulty info for the encoder to follow. I've seen it be intermittent and do this only every so often as well. Those drive boards are touchy. Is Selway who you bought it thru ?

[Bob W.]

I can hear the noise slightly at 50% and not at all at 25%. There is no noise whatsoever when I rapid to the right either. This is also isolated to the X-axis.

 

I did buy the machine from Selway and the service has been very good over the years. No complaints there.

[Bob W.]

A little more info on why I bought another...

 

I am a one man shop and pretty much self taught when it comes to Mastercam and operating a CNC machine (with much help from this board). My initial plan was to buy this machine to replace my VF2. If I bought a machine with a Fanuc control the cost would be +30%, my trunnion would not be compatible, and I would have a lot of extra work ahead in learning the new control and sorting a new post.

 

My goal now is to keep both machines and if I do need additional capacity in the future I will most likely be buying a higher end Japanese machine. My business is just not at a place where I can justify it right now. I was REALLY hoping that my experience with the VF2 was an anomoly.

[Bob W.]

I should also mention that both Selway and Haas service techs have paid visits and no amount of parameter adjustment would solve the problem. That was when the extended warranty offer came about. They adjusted parameters, pulled the way covers, tinkered, and then said 'it probably isn't a problem, how about we extend the warranty'. They might be right but with a new $110,000 machine should I have to settle for that?

 

In all fairness they are still trying to resolve this issue and hopefully they will. I am just trying to determine my options if they can't come up with a fix.

[iowajim62]

Soumds like the preload on the bearings could possibly be the issue instead of the drive. They should still send somebody out to see you since it's only been days that it's been on your floor. Hold on to the checkbook until they do come out would be my advice.

 

Worst case I could make a call and maybe get you some help. There is somebody that is on this forum that MIGHT read this and could do ALOT more than me in getting you some help.

Apps Guy you reading this ?

Help a brutha out !

[Bob W.]

They are still trying to fix the problem so there is hope. I am so frustrated with the issues I have had with the VF2 that my patience is VERY THIN! I am not prepared for three more years of the same. I must add again that Selway's service has been excellent. Now if only Haas had a little better QC. This is the third and only the first was problem free (Mini Mill, the cheapest of the lot)

[jfich]

To eliminate the drives you should be able to switch the x and y axis drives around.

[Quickmike]

We have what sounds like a similar noise on our VF-4. I've kind of always thought it was the way covers. I wonder if you removed the way covers on the x axis if it would make a differance.

[ATG]

We have a vm3 just over 8 months old. So far we’ve had 3 spindles in it, glass scales added to it, countless techs parts, boards you name to try and fix this machine. We still cannot machine a simple part with this machine. We sent this exact same program with the tools and material to haas and on there machine it ran perfect. This machine has to be a total lemon...........There’s probably a total of 120 hours of cutting time on this machine since we’ve had it..............And we still don’t know the problem is......Time to Send this boat anchor back.................

[X-L Engineering Corp]

(Lemon Law) we had to do that with one of our Machines 2 Years after we bought it we didn't get all of the refund but it was worth it to get rid of a bad Machine!!!

[Mjölnir]

Does Haas still use a 'deadbeat' timer on their machines? That is, don't make the initial payments, don't get the code to unlock control rendering machine useless.

 

That's a big enough deterrent to not hold back money if you need the machine to ship product but making payment is effectively accepting the equipment as is.

 

I do not envy shop owners due to things like this. Plus they often need to hire arrogant arseholes like me to program and run their machines.

[Murray Mold]

We just got a new VF3 w/cat 50 spindle and we've been having problems with chatter. New spindle is on the floor right now waiting for tech's to come back and install.

Looks like the taper wasn't finish ground inside. It's real choppy looking with high-spot blueing on a toolholder.

[Reverend Turk]

Ok..so here I sit reading all of these issues with Haas and we are about to purchase either a VF-5 or VF-6. Can others please tell me that like most things...there are those out there with little to no problems with their new machines?

[Murray Mold]

Other than the spindle, it's been okay and the service tech's are great. You being in Dayton will probably have the same dealer as us

[Reverend Turk]

Sweet...good to know. Now if only I could get them to toss me a free Haas shirt I would be in there...along with a Mastercam shirt that I reall reall want!!

[Murray Mold]

I got a HAAS button up oxford type shirt.

Talk to Phil Haming....he'll hook you up. He took us to lunch at Churchill Downs. It was pretty cool because we had time to check everything out. Last time I was there was for the Ky Derby and it was a madhouse!!

[Reverend Turk]

Cool..thanks!!

[Chris Rizzo]

check your mail Bob.

[TOOLDEV]

I have a very simmilar noise on my 10 year old VF3, it turned out to be the bearing at the end of the ball screw.

 

3 month ago i took delivery of a brand new VF3, one month into it she sounded rough, it was a bad ball screw.3 days later it was replaced, and she is good now.

 

A haas like any other machine is made of moduels, many of which are used in other machines. 10 Years ago i bought my first Haas, now i have seven, never looked back.

 

in my experience, the agents i deal with always got to the core of the problem and fixed my machine properly within a very short timeframe. i never felt the need to withhold money or anything like that.

 

if i feel a specific technitian did not do his ob properly, i send a strong worded letter and request a different tech person to come out.

if you are not totally happy, share your thoughts with headquarters.

[Hitachi]

We have 6 Haas VF4's and VF6's combined along with 2 VF6 trunnions and 1/2 dozen Haas rotary tables, some as old as 10 years. We call them disposable mills, run them hard,keep the maintenance up, then sell them off or ship them to a low cost region. These machines have had very little down time over the course of owning them. The biggest problem we had had with these machines are inexperienced operators crashing them, otherwise they have been well worth the money spent over the last decade.

 

Elco1971

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