Setup Sheets_Whats your style

[EazyE]

I have been doing all the setups tooling and programming around here so I know what needs to be done and how. I am just starting to use setup sheets and instructions (using X+) for the other guys to do the setups. However it seems that I am not being clear enough to them on whats what. Maybe some people could post pics of there sheets and or methods here. And give your thoughts on fool proofing setups...

[htm01]

quote:

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fool proofing setups...

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no such thing. they keep making better fools!

[EazyE]

Who ever makes these fools better is really good at what they do .. But none the less if I give all the information in a good format then when something goes wrong its the fools problem not mine...

[Cuda84]

Good luck with that.

 

I had this problem where I used to work, no matter how good your setup info there is always a way to get it wrong. Especially if they don't care. It's easier to blame it on the programmer then to have to think about what you are doing or ask questions.

[Storkman]

quote:

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It's easier to blame it on the programmer

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:clapping:

 

Everyday occurrence here.

[chipman]

Quote from an actual operator I work with

"setup sheets? ahh I never look at those!"

[rowbinders]

Nothing is foolproof to a suffeciently tallented fool.

[Daniel M]

The HTML setup sheets work pretty sweet for us but you can make your own easy enough.

 

A good Image/Graphic is essential. Show as much as possible 3views (top, bot, side, front) plus an iso. Show jaws/tooling. Critical dimensions.

Show program zero locations.

 

Of course prog# and location in the DNC. Date and time of posted program is important. Program zeros. Offset #'s used. Tool list (HTML throws in a graphic of the tool). Programmer name.

 

Save the setup sheets on the server in PDF so that they can print out each time the job is done and save from having to file hard copies.

 

just my .02

 

D

[EazyE]

Thanks for the input people... Good idea with the pdf Daniel I will give that one a try we have computers at each machine so might not even have to print it out just pull it up in adobe and there you go .....

[MLS]

I have an etch-a-sketch on my desk for when they come ask.

 

Seriously though, it is worth the time to think and think again about how to tool the parts you program so that they can only be loaded in one way. I think this is more beneficial really than a setup sheet because half of the operators can't read... maybe that is too harsh.

 

I usually give enough views(3 most of the time) to show how it loads, clamping, origin, and a tool list then a program header that contains all the info as well.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I personally don't use the setup sheets with MC or the one the InHouse has. WAY too much paper IMHO. I have a MS Word Template that I just grab a few screen shots, type in some information, done. I can get a 4 Operation part on 3 sheets, including a nice cover sheet. Just preferenace. I think the amount of information that the provided setup sheets give is just way overkill.

 

JM2C

[Greg Williams]

James,

 

Could you please show us a screen dump of the doc file that you use?

[Newbeeee™]

I'm afraid that I'm with James as well on this.

I don't think that pictures of cutters etc is very beneficial, and it does take up a lot of paper.

We use a word template, and have tool descriptions + comments within the program to read.

I nearly have the mill2set outputting just as I wanted it, if only I understood this editing game better!

[Guest]

I've got the new sheet outputting just a tool list, I removed all of the pic and OP information from it.

 

So part info, setup info, a screen cap of the part and the tool list.

[Newbeeee™]

John,

Can you output it straight into a word template?

That way, specific comments to that job could easily be added to it?

[BrianP.]

Crayola crayons work the best.

[Don Trust]

Although it's always best to give as much info as the operator will need, sometimes it's just not possible. Some people are either too dense or just don't care.

 

For instance, a while back, (long while) I gave an Operator a sheet with a very critical bit of information written rather large in red and circled in green. He 'missed' it. The next time I gave him a setup sheet, the important info was written in red and circled with every color of pen and pencil I could find. I think something like 15 different colors, taking up about 1/3 of the entire sheet.

 

.....yea, he 'missed' it. What ya gonna do. :-)

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

We use a customized version of the HTML set-up sheet from IHS except no silly pictures of endmills and all the extra info that most people don't need.

 

We did add an operations page that outputs a line for each operation. I actually use it to check my program. It outputs key info like R & Z levels for drilling as well as the cycle line EX: G83 Q.15 F3., RPM, feedrates, cutter comp, tl-offsets & stock left as well as my comment from the operation.

 

It acts modally so if something doesn't change it isn't re-output for a very clean look.

 

This gives the operator a good idea of what I'm doing and allows me to make changes quickly (like revisions) since it forces me to comment my operations.

 

The front page has notes as well as where prog. zero is at as well as a screenshot of the verified part. Use a shareware prog. that let's me get a fixed size window so it always fits on the first page. I also have a macro for my ultra edit editor (cheap at about $60 with a great compare prog. as well) that adds color to the html file for printing on a color printer.

 

When I showed my boss this he loved it and said it is exactly what we needed. We have an old cam program that is text based so the set-up guys are used to seeing the "source code" so this sort of mimics that.

 

If anyone is interested in some screen shots email me at [email protected]

 

Scott

[thanhsonnguyen]

EazyE

 

go in this web gmccs.de (x+ can using in x3 and x4)

[rdshear]

We use a word based setup sheet as well. In them I include a title page which describes the job and the program revision, a comment page for the machinist to offer suggestions for improvement, and several setup / machining detail pages which include setup screen shots from mastercam and typed tool lists and operation comments as well as the program numbers. Below are a few sample pages from one of the jobs I programmed.

 

This is the title page.

 

 

Comment page

 

 

Setup page

 

 

Machining page

 

We've come a long way from the plain text files we used to give the guys and for the most part I think they appreciate the progress.

[shazam/TPP]

on a standard 3 axis vertical mill with a kurt vise on the table. On certain jobs i have listed on my set up sheet that the "Y AXIS ZERO IS THE BACK VISE JAW"

pretty clear to all my operators except one. he actually located off the back side of the back vise jaw and wondered what was wrong. this is supposedly a veteren machinist and did this twice. no longer here.

[rdshear]

Thanks Degmc, I put quite a bit of time into getting it where it is now, but I think the end result was worth it.

 

shazam/TPP, we too have those who almost seem to try to mis-interpret what we are trying to convey so they can point the finger at the programmers. Mostly I think those are the ones who would like things to go back to the way it was when the machinists that ran the machines wrote the programs as they went. Some of the same ones who were upset to see the last manual mill leave the shop.

 

With the down turn in the economy though, and the layoffs we've had, we don't have as many of those around anymore.

[X-L Engineering Corp]

Degmc

I can't get that link to work for me?

[thanhsonnguyen]

you can get old x3 +,you need custom toolbar for it in x4

[67 Yankee]

I use 3-4 lines of text within the program to describe the orientation and origin of the part along with the X+ tool list. I'll rotate the part around on screen to best show what the operator should expect to see so that when I hit HTML on my X+ output, they get a descriptive screen shot. For the most part the jobs run without a lot of questions.

 

I'd say try to be descriptive and minimal if that makes sense. I did have a part time programmer that wanted to write a novel at the beginning of each program and the setup guys would have to ask me what to do every time.