A little OT....cool video

[MIL-TFP-41]

I know that this was generated with smurfcam...but this is a cool vid nonetheless. Super slow motion "Truemill" cut. Chips are hypnotizing......

 

 

CNC Should try a vid like this with the new dynamic mill toolpath

[Mic6]

Hypnotizing Indeed

[Rob @ Target Machine]

I like this one.

 

 

Wish MC could do this.

[john W M]

[RobertELee]

quote:

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I like this one.

 

True Mill

 

Wish MC could do this.

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Why can't it? Isn't it just a variation of the Cimco Adaptive Clearing add-on?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Guru, 2D High Speed Toolpaths do..

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

How exactly do true mill and the Cimco product differ from the new Dynamic milling in Mastercam?

[Dan@home]

Looks just like 2D high speed....

[MIL-TFP-41]

Adaptive clearing (should be on everyones "want " list) is a true 3d toolpath. That is...you pick a solid, define the stock/tool/holder....and it kicks out a toolpath that is tough to beat. Example

. That was programed using no wireframe....just a solid model and a extra surface to define to stock boundary.

 

The new "dynamic mill" toolpath has some potential....tho it appears that it has been available in one of those lower end packages for some time.

 

As for a screenshot comparason with the above mentioned "lower end" product....Mastercam HS

 

Not matter....back tot he topic at hand....slow mo chips are way cool. Got a pretty good vid of some of what I call "tracer chips" that I will post soon.

[cobra95kev]

I had a chance the other day to play around with three different toolpaths with the same closed single chain geometry and the results from all three were very similar.

 

I tried Surfcams Truemill, X4's dynamic mill and the free trial version of Volumill. They all produced a good toolpath but the Surfcam still looked a little better and more consistent. I would still have to give the slight advantage to Surfcam because of the different ways you can chain the geometry. You can chain a single closed chain as partially either part geometry or Material(stock).

 

I might have some spare time Thursday or Friday, if I do I will post pictures of the backplotted toolpaths.

 

 

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

Sounds like the truemill style of chaining is exactly what I would like to see Mastercam work towards.

[neurosis]

quote:

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Looks just like 2D high speed....

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quote:

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Guru, 2D High Speed Toolpaths do..

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Ive spent allot of hours over the last month playing with high speed tool paths. I havent had the chance to play with surfcam and probably never will, but Ive spent a lot of time with mastercams Dynamic Milling and 2D high speed paths, Cimco's Adaptive Clearing, and Volumill. Mastercams High speed tool paths fell very short of what the others produced but the Dynamic milling was closer to Cimco's path than it was Volumills.

 

I just finished a job that had a fairly odd shaped profile in 15-5 stainless. I tried all three products to get the results that I was looking for. Mastercams High Speed Tool paths were never able to give me a path that would not break the tool. I was never able to get the Dynamic Milling to control the tool engagement when entering the stock which would break the tool in the first cut. Once the Dynamic Milling was able to remove enough material to create its race track it looked good but I was never able to get that far in to the part using it. The 2D Core was a complete waste of time. The tool path was inefficient and the tool engagement control was a joke. There were places that even though I told it to only allow a 5% tool engagement, it would engage 50% of the tool. I canned the 2D Core without even sending the code to the machine.

 

Between Cimco and Volumill, Volumill produced the best path in the end. We were able to get a 1/2" dia Helical variable flute, cutting 1.25 axial, .025 radial, 800 sfm @ 153 ipm, to remove over 500 cubic inches of material. With those parameters, I was never able to make it through a single part using Mastercams tool paths. I was never able to try Cimco's path as their 2d adaptive clearing had some bugs so I gave up on it.

 

 

quote:

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How exactly do true mill and the Cimco product differ from the new Dynamic milling in Mastercam?

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The path ive been able to create using the Dynamic Milling looked close to the path that Cimco produced. From the help that ive seen, it only shows the Dynamic path used in a pocketing routine. I was able to get it to work in a core style roughing very nicely but am not sure that it is meant for that yet? I would definitely trust it in Aluminum or softer materials. It produced a much better tool path than the 2d high speed machining did.

 

The Volumill does some things that neither of the others did. It adjusts your feed rates when you start to exceed your allowed material engagement and kept a constant load on the spindle and tool. I wonder if the Trumill does the same?

 

 

I hope to see some good things in the future for Dynamic Milling. It look like it has great potential!

[cobra95kev]

Neurosis,

Yeah Surfcam does do that. That have a patent on the truemill engine also. The Volumill toolpath was developed by some of the same guys that did truemill for Surfcam. The toolpaths are very very similar. I am not sure how much closer to the same they could be without triggering a lawsuit. CNC may be thinking the same thing.

 

I have run alot of 15-5 with truemill and it is awesome. So far I have only used the dynamic mill on aluminum and I haven't gotten to see it run as of yet.

[gcode]

Neurosis,

you've done some really good comparative test here.

If you can, bundle the files up and send them to

Mastercam QC along with your findings.

[neurosis]

I heard that Volumill and Truemill were created by some of the same people. That was why I was curious about the feed adjustments for tool engagement. I wonder how much Volumill will be limited due to the copyright. Our shop is considering purchasing the volumill but are a little worried about its future limitations.

 

If Dynamic milling even comes close to being what volumill is then there would be no reason to buy the volumill but so far it appears that they are following Cimco's strategies rather than volumills or truemills which in my opinion, are not as good.

[Michael Sullivan]

quote:

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Neurosis,

you've done some really good comparative test here.

If you can, bundle the files up and send them to

Mastercam QC along with your findings.

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+10000

[neurosis]

quote:

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Neurosis,

you've done some really good comparative test here.

If you can, bundle the files up and send them to

Mastercam QC along with your findings.

---

I would love to if I could. The part files that we have cannot be sent. And to be honest, unless they were willing to take the time to run the path generated by their different operations in different situations, they really have no idea how the paths would work. What looks good on the screen doesnt necessarily work on the machine. I am sure that most of the paths generated would have worked in Aluminum but since we are looking toward High Speed Machining harder materials we are finding some HUGE issues with them. Tool engagement being the biggest.

 

If you look closely at the paths generated you can see that the tool engagement is not consistent in either the Dynamic Milling (when used in a core style roughing) or the 2D High Speed Core. I havent spent much time on the rest yet but will in the future.

 

We are preparing to test several high speed paths out on some Titanium which I have a feeling is going to be "MUCH" less forgiving than the 15-5 was, and I am afraid to even attempt to use any of Mastercams High Speed paths. In fact, I am apprehensive about trying Cimco's as it seems to have some of the same tool engagement issues that Dynamic Milling does when doing a 2d core style roughing. On the outer passes when it engages the stock, the engagement doesnt appear to be consistent. Once the track is started it looks fine.

 

Trust me when I say that I am willing to do anything possible to help Mastercam become a better product. It benefits me to do so but that is only if they are willing to listen.

[MIL-TFP-41]

quote:

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The Volumill toolpath was developed by some of the same guys that did truemill for Surfcam. The toolpaths are very very similar. I am not sure how much closer to the same they could be without triggering a lawsuit. CNC may be thinking the same thing.

---

Surfware, Inc. v. Celeritive Technologies, Inc. et al

 

Does make one wonder how long Celeritive is going to be around

[cobra95kev]

Holy crap!

That is probably why CNC is not getting too close to Truemill.

[gcode]

Neurosis,

I've been a beta site for Mastercam for nearly a decade. I can assure you that if thier toolpaths

aren't doing the job, they want to know about it.

They have a bunch of state of the art machines they try toolpaths on and I'm sure they would take

your efforts seriously.

CNC will sign an NDA if that would make it possible for you to provide them with files.

If that's still not OK, you could modify your models into something close enough to demo the probelm without violating your customers secrets.

If they don't know there are problems, they for sure aren't going to get fixed.

[gcode]

quote:

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That is probably why CNC is not getting too close to Truemill.

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That's a pretty good reason not to buy

Truemill either. If they loose, your investment

is gone. It would probably be OK to

use thier online subscription service though

[Roger Peterson]

fillet chain, clearance fillet = tool radius, outside corners only. Pretty easy as in most core type situations it is the only part thay may need a little help.

 

cimco's toolpaths and Mastercams dynamic mill are very similar, they both do a good job of keeping a consistant portion of the circumference of the tool engaged with the stock. That doesn't mean the tool load doesn't change based on direction change (on sharp outside corners).

 

 

All that being said, you can easily run any toolpath through the high feed filter which will vary the feedrate based on direction change, and more importantly tool engagement. The high feed filter works wonders with the core rougher and area clearance, especially when using small cutters and/or hardened steel. Now incorporate the dynamic mill function...

 

Just because we get new shiny tools don't forget about the old tools that still work and are sometimes needed.

 

JM2C

 

[ 07-01-2009, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Roger Peterson ]

[Rob @ Target Machine]

Maybe dynamic mill will expand to core features in a future release of MC.

 

The allure of Trumill is the controlled engagement. Beautiful cuts, not so much tool burial in sharp inside corners. Too bad the smurfs got the technology first. I hate the gui in smurfcam. It's like a flashback to windoze 95.

 

I guess I'll always be partial to MC, but you can't help wanting more.

 

I don't see why MC can't come close without risking copyright infringement.

 

It's almost like peel milling outside profile features. Why not improve on that and call it a combination of peel mill and dynamic mill?

 

[ 07-01-2009, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Mastercam Guru ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You mean like Pynamic Mill©?

[Rob @ Target Machine]

Peelnamic Mill....ROLFMOA