Switching from mastercam to _____

[dforsythe]

Let me start this thread by saying that mastercam is a good cam package. It handles 2d work with ease and has some powerful 3d tools that work well. As of yet I haven’t come across a part that I wasn’t able to do with mastercam. The only question is at what cost ( time, work, ect). If you were looking into a new software package for doing complex 3d and 5 axis parts what direction would you go? And why?

 

I know this is a mastercam board, but there are a lot of good programmers on here and im sure the used sothing else at some point.

 

Thanks for the imput.

[gcode]

NX first

Catia second..

but after you get the quotes and

catch your breath Mastercam

will look pretty good after all

[Nick Eaton]

Personally I prefer NCL. Having said that if I owned my own shop I would probably not install it.

It is very expensive and it is not user friendly. If you do not have a background in APT its tough. The guy who taught me APT said that only abut 3-5% of his "students" were able to master 3d and multiaxis work. 2d is fairly staghtforward........for APT.

I believe the same is true with the other full engineering softwares, i.e. Unigraphics, Catia etc.....Much higher and steeper and longer learning curves.

We have a local company who has been trying to hire a Unigraphics programmer for some months now......still no luck. They have also had support problems.....

Market penetration is Mastercam's strong point.

If you can't run the software and execute (as a company) to a high standard what's the good of a high powered system....?? And if you can't hire the people easily......

Cheers

Nick

[dforsythe]

GCODE,

 

I have alrady gotten quotes for catia, we have one seat already but the R&D guys use it. NX has a new pricing plan that is within 10% of MC. The rep will be here next week to go over the new features in V7. and we already have 6 seats of mc, so that isnt going away anytime soon.

 

 

Thanks for the insight.

[dforsythe]

Nick,

all good info. i have only used mc for about 18 months so I’m not too attached to it. We have guys here that have only used it and have been on it since v8. I’m the lead / supervisor so I have to deal with all the hiring of the programmers. I will keep what you said in mind about finding people who know other systems. We have a little trouble getting mc programmers, but cali has quite a few of them once you search around.

[shazam/TPP]

we had a test piece run by a machine tool rep and they have MC and powermill. They liked powermill for the more complex stuff basically because of the toolpath editing. Ofcourse this was 3+ years ago.

[gcode]

quote:

---

NX has a new pricing plan that is within 10% of MC.

---

make sure you get a firm quote

for annual maintenance and any

posts you may need.

NX has made it easy to get in the

door, but on-going expenses are

stunning. .. At least that was

my experience a few years ago..

[gaijin_2007]

Powermill gets my vote too.

The CAM side of Catia and UG is simply an add-in to their main CAD business to lock people in.

Powermill is a dedicated CAM product with some unbelievably powerful 5-axis functionality (as well as being extremely fast for complex 3-axis work).

Plus Delcam have seriously got their act in order with how much development resource they put into it.

This was discussed recently in another thread too IIRC.

[YoDoug®]

quote:

---

The CAM side of Catia and UG is simply an add-in to their main CAD business to lock people in.

---

NX CAM is simply light years ahead of Mastercam. Not bad for an add on.

[gaijin_2007]

quote:

---

NX CAM is simply light years ahead of Mastercam

---

Won't disagree with you there in most cases (especially mill-turn), but I wasn't comparing them to MC in this instance.

The OP was talking about complex 3-axis and 5-axis work and neither Catia nor UG is a good solution in that area IMO.

 

But just to clarify.

 

Both have poor verification capabilities for collisions in 5-axis work with only the toolpaths being verified for collisions and not the linking moves (which Powermill does).

Also, IIRC even if you see a collision (they're only highlighted on the screen, you're not given any other information) then it's up to you to do something whereas powermill will either change the tool overhang, split the toolpath into separate safe and unsafe toolpaths and/or change retract heights, up to you what you want it to do automatically when it finds a problem.

Neither one has the tool-axis smoothing capabilities of powermill either which looks ahead during toolpath calculation to minimize excessive rotary axis movements.

 

Of course, everybody will have their favorite systems for various reasons the best way is to consider everything carefully and make sure that whatever way you go is the right way for your business.

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

Of course, everybody will have their favorite systems for various reasons the best way is to consider everything carefully and make sure that whatever way you go is the right way for your business.

---

Selecting software is probably one of the most difficult tasks since you really cannot properly evaluate it until you have good experience using it. In order to gain the experience you need to make the best decision, you need to purchase the software and invest the time to learn it. So, if you have issues, you now need to throw the purchase in the trash and start all over.

 

It’s not like buying a machine and realizing you don’t like it since with a machine you can always sell it, maybe at a loss, but not a total loss.

 

 

JM2C from the guy who know nothing about everything

[RandleXX]

NX along with Vericut..

 

The best CAM/Verification package that I have ever used, but the price is WAY up there..

[gaijin_2007]

I agree with the invest the time to learn it but not the need to purchase it.

I've been involved with software evaluations in the past where we've had people trained and using the software as part of the evaluation process.

Any potential supplier should be prepared to pony up and invest some of their time in a company who's looking at making an investment in their software by making sure they can make an educated decision about what's the best way forward for them.

 

I know nothing about a lot of things but I wouldn't be so bold as to brag that I know nothing about everything.

[Redfire427]

Without question, Powermill. If you search for my thread titled "looking for a higher end cam package" you will see that I did a very intensive evaluation of many different cam packages. Although in the end we did stick with Mastercam, there were some good contenders. Keep in mind that a lot of things ( cam package inprovements )have changed since I did my elauation a few years ago.

[Code_Breaker]

We have five programmers full time here ...

 

2 Mastercam

2 CATIA

1 Anvil (part time)

 

I do 80% of my programming in Mastercam ... but all 5-axis in CATIA, and occasionally, in NX ... depending on the part ... No one cam system does it all ... as supervisor, I need to know all our cam systems ...

 

My opinion is Mastercam is much faster and easier to program with ... time is an major factor here ... the really large parts (ie. 300" x 65" x 15.0") with complex surfaces and close tolerance, I go with CATIA, NX, and Anvil ... Mastercam seems to bog down with these parts ... You can still do them, but not as efficiently ...

 

quote:

---

It doesn't matter how good your hammer is, if you really need a screwdriver

---

Using the right tools for the right job is efficient and help keep the cost down ...

 

All verification is G-code with Vericut ....No cls verifications ... What goes to the floor is verified ... G-code

 

Again ... this is just my opinion ...

(but can I help it if I am right? )

[Mic]

quote:

---

Both have poor verification capabilities for collisions in 5-axis work with only the toolpaths being verified for collisions and not the linking moves (which Powermill does).

---

Powermill only checks the linking inside the single toolpaths and not the moves connecting one toolpath to the next.

 

When you post a multiaxis program in Powermill you get this warning:

 

This program is multiaxis, please check carefully the moves

which join the toolpaths, they are not gouge checked

[gcode]

A lot of this depends on the kind of work you are looking to do. Different packages have different strengths.

I've only worked in one shop that had multiple

software packages . We had 6 seats of V9

and one seat of Catia and it would not be fair

to compare them because the Catia guy was learning. They did bring a contractor in for some

full-on 5X airframe work and he blew our socks off. 6 years later running X4, I don't think it would be any different.. That guy was good.

A couple of people I talk to say the Mastercam

guys outperform NX/Catia for 90% of the work they do, but for that last really tough 10%, Catia/NCX rule.

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

we've had people trained and using the software as part of the evaluation process.

---

True, I am doing that exact thing right now but I don't think they are willing to give me a 12 month evaulation.

 

With software, I will not longer look at any package unless they provide a eval copy.

 

quote:

---

Any potential supplier should be prepared to pony up and invest some of their time in a company who's looking at making an investment in their software by making sure they can make an educated decision about what's the best way forward for them.

---

I have found that in better economic conditions, they expect you to at least purchase some training as part of the eval.

[Chris Parish]

Dave:

 

really, I didn't realize you were evaluating your second seat of Mastercam... J/K

[gaijin_2007]

quote:

---

Powermill only checks the linking inside the single toolpaths and not the moves connecting one toolpath to the next.

 

When you post a multiaxis program in Powermill you get this warning:

 

This program is multiaxis, please check carefully the moves which join the toolpaths, they are not gouge checked

---

IIRC powermill sees gouges and collisions as 2 different things right?

And NX and Catia don't even check the moves within an individual toolpath so you're even worse off.

[Mic]

quote:

---

IIRC powermill sees gouges and collisions as 2 different things right?

And NX and Catia don't even check the moves withincked an individual toolpath so you're even worse off.

---

Yes that is 2 seperate things in Powermill and the user can check for both. Both during calculation and after and the toolshank and holder are included in the collision check.

 

But all these checks only applies to the single toolpath. The move from one toolpath to the next isn't checked. So depending how the postpro is setup the user needs to be careful. By default Powermill moves directly from one toolpath to the next. So if the next toolpath is on the opposite side the tool would move right through the part.

[Dave.L]

quote:

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Dave:

 

really, I didn't realize you were evaluating your second seat of Mastercam... J/K

---

Chris, you know what I am doing.

 

It's still a bit early for me to make detailed comments, but what I will say now is no solution will be perfect. I see many pros and cons to both MasterCAM and Esprit.

 

If I could merge the features of both in one package, WOW that would be killer. Where one lacks, the other excels.

 

I will leave it at that for now.

[mig]

What about WorkNc ?

Also good package if you have Mastercam already.

[YoDoug®]

I have been away from NX for about 8 months but When I last used it it did G-code based machine simulation. We could single step throught the g code and see every move, linear moves, rotary moves.

 

From NX web

 

quote:

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Full G-code machine simulation accounts for all the motion, eliminating surprises that can appear during post processing.

---

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_u...imulation.shtml

[silky_johnson]

I would probably consider hypermill, they seem to have pretty good handle on the 5x stuff.

 

Their collision avoidance and tool vector control is superior to anything else I've seen.

 

This never gets old!

 

And they collision check moves between tool paths unlike some other stuff out there.