X5 MU1 ????

[Dave.L]

Bob,

 

I cannot agree more with most of your post. If you search the forum you will find one of mine that's pretty close to yours. But, I feel the issue is with the software industry as a whole, or 90% anyway..

[MrFish]

Bob

 

I cannot agree more with your post, was actually about to write my own rant and now don't have to

 

and

 

Mr Paris, this is the reason why i didn't ask for help or give enough info to be helped in this instance as we are sick of having to fix Mastercams F-ups in there new releases. Why should we spend the large sums of money that we do just to have to waste our valuable programming time fixing mastercam so we can use it?

At this stage we are going to stick with running X4 MU3 until CNC software do there job properly and fix all the known issues in X5 with MU1 !!! or will that be MU3 right before they release X6 - sounds like a familiar story doesn't it .

[?Mark]

The beta guys are just messing with you.

We almost never know in advance the release date. If we do it's usually just few days ahead. We do however get to play with it a little sooner though

Also, we don't get to decide which bugs have priority. And believe me when I say that John and many other beta testers are letting CNC Software have it for not getting some "things" done/fixed sooner.... It does get heated

 

<cheers>

[Bruce Caulley]

Don't worry Bob, the beta forum gets its fair share of rants too. Unfortunately for people like you, the first rule of Beta Club is, don't talk about Beta Club

 

Bruce

[Thee Rickster ™]

LOL @ BRUCE ALMIGHTY...

[neurosis]

Does anyone have any idea of when optirough will have some kind of stock recognition?

[jeff]

Does anyone have any idea of when optirough will have some kind of stock recognition?

 

They are making you wait until X10 is released.

You can't expect to have all of the bells and whistles can you?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Don't worry Bob, the beta forum gets its fair share of rants too. Unfortunately for people like you, the first rule of Beta Club is, don't talk about Beta Club

 

It get's VERY heated in there from time to time. We don;t just sit back and enjoy the new toys, we test, we evaluate, we opine, etc...

 

Criticism is fine. SOme would have y ou believe that we don;t allow criticism of CNC, well, that's a flat out lie. Some of my rants on Mill-Turn (or lack thereof) are BRUTAL!... AND well deserved. I do try to keep it as constructive as possible as it's usually easier to draw ants with oney rather than vinegar, keeping in mind, each has it's place and there's a time for vinegar and a time for honey.

 

I do take moderate offense at the notion that we Beta Testers are not testing "correctly"... (whatever that means)... Like you, each one of us has our way of doing things, and believe it or not, bugs often a show themselves when one particular way of doing something produces an anomalie. You work differently than I do, I work differently from Bruce, who works differently from Zoober, who works differently from JP, etc.... ad infinitum. So, ease off on the Beta Testers a little, we're doing the best we can to find the broken stuff.

 

Take Care,

[neurosis]

I think what Bob is referring to, is the fact that things like X style coolant which have been broken and then fixed already in past releases, are again broken. Regardless of whether or not the Beta testers missed this, I am assuming that this had to have been noticed, but how does this and other functions get broken after being previously fixed, and the fact that they are broken and missed not just once, but time and time again. Its as if they use the code cut and paste method that I use for post processor editing except that instead of saving the working code, they just keep cutting and pasting the broken code back in to the software over and over. It escapes me as to how something like this would get broken and missed time after time. While this seems like a trivial issue, it has caused me major problems. To the point in fact that I have switched away from using it at all and probably never will again as my confidence that it will not be broken again in future releases is completely gone.

 

Sorry Bob, I am not trying to speak for you, just trying to interpret your frustration.

 

And also, I dont blame any of the issues that I have had and/or currently have with the software on the people that are beta testing this software on their own time. I commend you people for spending your valuable time to use and test this software in a real world environment before it gets released to the public. I dont think that anyone can hold any of these issues against you. Its the quality department at CNC that is in question. If the shop that I work for sent parts out with these same quality standards I doubt that we would still be in business. I also doubt that anyone in their right mind would continue to pay us for our services.

 

Sorry if that is hard to read and understand.. I am working on about three hours of sleep here.

[John White WLM&T]

I think what Bob is referring to, is the fact that things like X style coolant which have been broken and then fixed already in past releases, are again broken. Regardless of whether or not the Beta testers missed this, I am assuming that this had to have been noticed, but how does this and other functions get broken after being previously fixed, and the fact that they are broken and missed not just once, but time and time again. Its as if they use the code cut and paste method that I use for post processor editing except that instead of saving the working code, they just keep cutting and pasting the broken code back in to the software over and over. It escapes me as to how something like this would get broken and missed time after time. While this seems like a trivial issue, it has caused me major problems. To the point in fact that I have switched away from using it at all and probably never will again as my confidence that it will not be broken again in future releases is completely gone.

 

Sorry Bob, I am not trying to speak for you, just trying to interpret your frustration.

 

And also, I dont blame any of the issues that I have had and/or currently have with the software on the people that are beta testing this software on their own time. I commend you people for spending your valuable time to use and test this software in a real world environment before it gets released to the public. I dont think that anyone can hold any of these issues against you. Its the quality department at CNC that is in question. If the shop that I work for sent parts out with these same quality standards I doubt that we would still be in business. I also doubt that anyone in their right mind would continue to pay us for our services.

 

Sorry if that is hard to read and understand.. I am working on about three hours of sleep here.

 

 

+1000

 

John

 

Oh ya. Don't forget to add some protection from greedy dealers..

[Rob @ Target Machine]

X style coolant which have been broken and then fixed already in past releases, are again broken

 

What's not working with X-style coolant? I'm using it just fine.

I have it set in my op defaults as a matter of fact, so I don't have to set my flood and thru coolant for every tool.

 

Btw - We(Beta Sites) are aware of the Beta issues and can't discuss them in the main forum without breaking the Beta agreement, so don't be suprised when you don't get a straight answer.

We're still waiting for Webby to put up the Beta forum, so it's very hard for us to get together on issues right now.

[?Mark]

We're still waiting for Webby to put up the Beta forum, so it's very hard for us to get together on issues right now.

???

It's been up since day one.

[jeff]

It get's VERY heated in there from time to time. We don;t just sit back and enjoy the new toys, we test, we evaluate, we opine, etc...

 

Criticism is fine. SOme would have y ou believe that we don;t allow criticism of CNC, well, that's a flat out lie. Some of my rants on Mill-Turn (or lack thereof) are BRUTAL!... AND well deserved. I do try to keep it as constructive as possible as it's usually easier to draw ants with oney rather than vinegar, keeping in mind, each has it's place and there's a time for vinegar and a time for honey.

 

I do take moderate offense at the notion that we Beta Testers are not testing "correctly"... (whatever that means)... Like you, each one of us has our way of doing things, and believe it or not, bugs often a show themselves when one particular way of doing something produces an anomalie. You work differently than I do, I work differently from Bruce, who works differently from Zoober, who works differently from JP, etc.... ad infinitum. So, ease off on the Beta Testers a little, we're doing the best we can to find the broken stuff.

 

Take Care,

 

I agree, what some people fail to realize is that while the beta testers submit bug reports, suggestions, issues.. etc... It's still up to the Dev's to decide what to do with those.

Ultimately it's their fault if something was reported and not fixed/implemented.

How many beta testers are there?

Seems like they would want as many as possible, because of what you said...:"You work differently than I do, I work differently from Bruce, who works differently from Zoober, who works differently from JP, etc..."

Everyone uses Mastercam differently, and although I don't do any complex 5axis work, and mainly 3axis stuff, I see things here and there that I would have also reported if I was in Beta.

[Bob W.]

I do take moderate offense at the notion that we Beta Testers are not testing "correctly"... (whatever that means)... Like you, each one of us has our way of doing things, and believe it or not, bugs often a show themselves when one particular way of doing something produces an anomalie. You work differently than I do, I work differently from Bruce, who works differently from Zoober, who works differently from JP, etc.... ad infinitum. So, ease off on the Beta Testers a little, we're doing the best we can to find the broken stuff.

 

Take Care,

 

For the record, I don't have any gripes with the Beta testers and what they do. My gripe lies with CNC's quality control department. I greatly appreciate the time (and risks) that beta testers take to test out the software and search out bugs. The only thing that rubs me the wrong way is that when new releases come out they tend point fingers at the users for issues instead of acknowledging that the software has bugs. Here is a great example posted by John in response to a user pointing out that the release has bugs:

 

"With all the problems??? You're kidding right?

 

OK, all these users and what a half dozen issues that people have not caused themselves and it's "all these problems""

 

Fact is that X5 has bugs. I do feel that a lot of past issues have been resolved but at the same time there are new bugs on features that worked fine before. I completely understand that NEW features will have issues that need to be ironed out but when existing features that were bulletproof are broken it really makes me mad. The reason is I cant take anything for granted when installing a new version of Mastercam. I have to proceed carefully and look for issues with ALL features and not just the new ones. I don't expect the software to be perfect but I do expect features that worked in the past to keep working as they have.

[neurosis]

What's not working with X-style coolant? I'm using it just fine.

I have it set in my op defaults as a matter of fact, so I don't have to set my flood and thru coolant for every tool.

 

 

 

Strange that you do not recall the issue since you yourself posted a "work around"

 

Work around for x coolant settings not staying.

[Bob W.]

I also don't place any blame on the Beta testers for the dynamic milling issue. My point there is that I believe one of them had run across it so CNC must have known before the release of X5. I ran into it within a week of using X5 and several others have as well. How many beta testers are there anyways? Beta testers are there to use the software and report bugs. It is not their responsibility to fix bugs and it is completely out of their hands. I'm believe one of them reported this but it didn't get fixed but hat is just a guess.

[MrFish]

It always blows me away that so many simple things, like the current coolant issue, get through to releases, don't Beta testers use coolant ?? just an example.

[jeff]

don't Beta testers use coolant ??

 

Really? You actually took the time to type that?

[Dave.L]

I completely understand that NEW features will have issues that need to be ironed out but when existing features that were bulletproof are broken it really makes me mad. The reason is I cant take anything for granted when installing a new version of Mastercam. I have to proceed carefully and look for issues with ALL features and not just the new ones. I don't expect the software to be perfect but I do expect features that worked in the past to keep working as they have.

 

That's a very well written statement. That's why upgrading is always at a risk and why I feel so strong about a bug fix list; so each user can evaulate the risk and see if it's worth it to upgrade.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I use V9 style coolant. NO issues with that.

[gcode]

don't Beta testers use coolant ??

 

of course.. but not everybody uses the "from tool" function.

We don't "test" the software.. we use it in our daily work environement.

Everybody uses the software differently.. If I don;t use a function, I not going

to find a probelm with it.

[neurosis]

That's a very well written statement. That's why upgrading is always at a risk and why I feel so strong about a bug fix list; so each user can evaulate the risk and see if it's worth it to upgrade.

 

I totally agree! A bug fix list would be very nice. I have never until now used software that does not provide a bug fix list of some sort. Do they not supply this out of embarrassment? (sarcasm)

 

I completely skipped X3 because of bugs. I had so many problems with the initial X3 release that the owner of the company told me NOT to upgrade the software until I was 100% certain that it would not be plagued with issues. I told him that if he held me to that then we would never upgrade mastercam again. It doesnt matter who is to blame for the issues that this software has. They affect my job and as far as the Owner is concerned, when I install and use this software I am responsible for what comes out regardless of whether or not it is working properly.

 

That means when coolant fails to come on or z levels values are not posting as I have entered them the owner holds ME responsible for any part and/or tooling damage that is caused by these issues.

 

 

I use V9 style coolant. NO issues with that.

 

I switched all of my control def's back to v9 style coolant and have not had a single issue since. I still have X4 part files that have X style coolant enabled in the control defs. If I open and make any modifications I have to make sure that the coolant is functioning as expected.

 

It is/was nice to have some of the control that X coolant provides.

[#Rekd™]

I have no issues with the coolant (must be V9 as my post was updated from that).

 

I have learned that there are issues/ bugs with most software....it is a competitive market and I am sure CNC software knows this ans is trying to maintain market share.

 

I understand that you pay good money for a program and you should not have to do their quality control but there are lots of choices/ options for other Cad/Cam software. There are free cad/cam programs out there to try as well.

 

Dave did you not switch to NX7.5?

 

John

[jeff]

I don't have a problem with bugs at release date, but I do have a problem with them releasing fixes for the software that you paid for as a Maintenence Update.

Charging to fix a product that you already paid for and wasn't working correctly is wrong.

[Dave.L]

Dave did you not switch to NX7.5?

 

Still working on the eval...I got real busy and had to put it off, be back to it in the next few week. From what I have done so far with NX, it's a done deal but I still have lots to do before I can make the switch.