Haas vs Makino part 2

[TheePres]

Ok now I'm curious how this makino would hold up against a Fadal!!

[GnoGueyJose]

Fadal.... really. You brought Fadal up? Talk about bringing spitwads to a gun fight. Fadal has got to be the biggest PS ever produced by an American MTB.

[lifetimewarranty]

Ok now I'm curious how this makino would hold up against a Fadal!!

 

LOL - To bring back the "Ferrari vs Honda" argument - - - now you want us to compare a Ferrari to a Yugo?

[RaiderX]

Fatal, them were the days, ran many good parts on em and the company nets 100's millions in business now. good stepping stone

 

my theory is if I aint footen the bill run what they brung and make it work at all costs. that will separate the men from the boys.

[TheePres]

Ive ruined many previously excellent fadals.

[Rotary Ninja]

Mori Seiki is the same way. There isn't a "price list" with option costs. They decide what you "need", and then they decide what they think you can afford, and quote accordingly.

 

I worked at a shop that had 3 Mori-Seiki 8-axis machines. They were like $450k each. They were very nice machines. But when they broke man it was expensive. Even though the owner worked on the machines himself. I actually tore the turret off of one of them and replaced a shear pin. One had to have the left turret live tooling drive motor replaced. That was a week of hard labor by the owner while I handed him wrenches. I worked there three years and saw all these breakdowns. So I have my reservations about them. But I also know those machines ran non-stop day in and day out for a few years before I started there. He lived next door and had the machines hooked up to a device that would call him when the machine stopped at a certain part count for a quality check. He would run over, check a part, restart the machine, then go back to bed I heard through the grapevine he just dropped a million on 4 Haas 5-Axis machines

[Joe788]

I heard through the grapevine he just dropped a million on 4 Haas 5-Axis machines

 

LOL. Hope he got a lot more than 4 of them for a million bucks.

[?Mark]

LOL. Hope he got a lot more than 4 of them for a million bucks.

 

And he won't be getting much sleep either

[Rotary Ninja]

I am not sure what all he bought with them. He does work for GE. I am sure he bought them with every possible option. Last time I was there he was running some Rene 41 5-axis parts. I heard about his purchase from the Haas service guy when he was at our shop changing a gear box.

[gcode]

LOL. Hope he got a lot more than 4 of them for a million bucks.

 

He only needed one... he bought the rest for spares

[mkd]

how do I go about putting the programs on ftp?

seriously, there needs to be some FTP instructions for dummies (me)!

i followed Jparis' instructions got my file in windows explorer..../ftp://ftp.divxnetworks.com

now what?

[MotorCityMinion]

Drag and drop the file to and from where ever.

 

I do not use Internet Explorer and had to figure this out as well. Add it to favorites. I'm using IE 9 for this. Opera gives me grief with the FTP.

 

Check and see if these settings are correct:

 

In IE: Tools, Options, Advanced, check the box next to....

 

1) Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)

 

2) Use Passive FTP (for Firewall and DSL modem compatibility)

 

3) Always allow MCM access to Paypal Account

 

Apply changes.

 

ftp://mastercam-cadcam.com/

 

user = mastercam pass = swiss

 

To view this FTP site in Windows Explorer: press Alt, click View, and then click Open FTP Site in Windows Explorer.

 

HTH, MCM

[Rotary Ninja]

 

3) Always allow MCM access to Paypal Account

 

 

This one is grayed out for me. There is a star next to it and at the bottom of the dialog box it says "Please have at least $2.50 in your bank account to enable this option". Any advice?

[Rotary Ninja]

He only needed one... he bought the rest for spares

 

Yeah Tom, we know. Haas's are junk, inaccurate piles of scrap metal

[MotorCityMinion]

4) open ports 8000 through 8200 on your router, shut off your firewall, then stay in the forum with the message dialog box open. In the morning there will a very large sum of money in it.

[Rotary Ninja]

Awesome. Then I can go buy me a Makino.

 

Back on topic... Bob, will you be able to run some 3D surfacing comparisons in the future you think? I know the Haas's slow down when it gets really complex. I'd love to see how the Makino handles a similar toolpath.

[mkd]

 

 

To view this FTP site in Windows Explorer: press Alt, click View, and then click Open FTP Site in Windows Explorer.

 

HTH, MCM

 

aah,thats it!

 

i'm clueless as to what's the deal with the sticky ftp instruction video ftp.divxnetworks.com references????

[Rotary Ninja]

I just use Filezilla for the FTP. I have no issues at all. It's free by the way.

[Joe788]

Bob, where is our weekly video?

[Bob W.]

Bob, where is our weekly video?

 

Have to get some work out the door... Maybe next week.

[Rotary Ninja]

You've turned Joe into a junkie

[mkd]

Bob, where is our weekly video?

perhaps this will suffice until Mr Wolcott uploads one of his great high quality videos.

 

apologies for my terrible cell phone video quality.

 

tech details:

over-rode feed rates in attached MC file to 320ipm

spindle running at 6K

2002 VF3, 1000ipm capable, HS machining option from Haas. corner rounding set at .020.

2 speed gearbox option 7500 max rpm. 20Hp peak at the motor, less through gearbox.

.075 stepover in MC

1.0" axial depth

in the cut the needle was hitting 100%ish load

[mkd]

well i see people looking, but no comments yet. was anyone able to download?

 

Again, the radial step over was 25% with a 5/8 depth cut for the 1/2" tool.5*.25

as you can see our cut area is almost exactly the same .075 sq in Vs Mr Wolcott's .078 sq in.

 

if i could run at 12K Vs the 6K available to me, think it may be possible to hit double my feed @640ipm with the 30Hp spindle? The Guhring variable helix cutter would certainly hold up.

[Bob W.]

well i see people looking, but no comments yet. was anyone able to download?

 

 

as you can see our cut area is almost exactly the same .075 sq in Vs Mr Wolcott's .078 sq in.

 

if i could run at 12K Vs the 6K available to me, think it may be possible to hit double my feed @640ipm with the 30Hp spindle? The Guhring variable helix cutter would certainly hold up.

 

Moving along pretty good. Is that in G187P1 (roughing) mode? I can get mine to run that fast, but what I don't like about it is I need to leave .020"+ material, otherwise the machine will cut into the finished part dimensions. For the work I typically do I like to rough in G187P2 so I can leave .005" and eliminate the need for a secondary roughing operation to get close, as most of my finishing is with pretty small end mills.

 

As shown in my video, the limiting feed factor was the chatter... At the higher rpm it wasn't cutting well at all and needed to be backed off. In my video both machines were running in standard mode. With the Makino I could have roughed at that speed and left .005" and not scrapped parts. With the Haas I would have needed to put the machine in G187P1 mode, which would have been producing scrap parts at that feed rate without adding significantly to the stock to leave (~.020"-.030" vs .005" - .010"). Maybe my Haas is just a lemon?

[Bob W.]

I was thinking for my next video I would run a mold on both machines. What I had in mind was a 12" x 12" aluminum mold. I plan to rough, semi finish, and finish. Before running the mold I would put a ring gage on the back left corner of the table and set a work offset to it. I would also set a reference tool in the spindle. After the mold is complete I would reset the work offset on the ring gage and reset the tool in the spindle noting the results (dimension changes). I will also note the cycle times. All roughing will be done in roughing mode (G187P1 for Haas, M251 for Makino) and all finishing will be done in finishing mode (G187 P3 for Haas, M250 for Makino). This would give a good indication of table drift in X and Y, and spindle growth in Z. Before I run this, are there any suggestions of what people would like to see? Any things I might be doing to make this unfair?