maintenance agreement coming to Mastercam

[Philcott]

I heard that Mastercam is going to implement an annual maintenance agreement with its users in the near future. Point updates and service packs would be covered by the agreement and would no longer be free.

 

Can any of you, a little closer to those who would know, shed some light on this?

 

Phil

[Rekd™]

That would be a really bad move..

 

'Rekd teh don't ruin a good thing!

[Mark H]

[robk]

I have gotten the newsletter from CNC Software and it explains it a little on the last page. It's not very clear though.According to CNC Software it's by "customer's request". There is no word in there that service packs or patches would not be free anymore. They call it an " optional annual maintenance program". I wouldn't jump to conclusions (yet).

 

Rob

[Lathe-Mill]

it's all about the mighty dollar.

they may be thinking:

" #1 cad-cam in the world "

why not charge for the new stuff...(fixed bugs)

like microsoft windows...(WINDBLOWS).

WIN 95, after 5 fixes...version a,b,c,d.

WIN 98 how many versions?...I forgot already

then ME , 2.000 and now XP.

But still the same **** .

I wont be surprise if that it's what this guys are thinking. damm wrong.

You made it, we bought it, bugs?...you fix it.

otherwise make something good, with no bugs.

[mayday]

I have not heard of this.

 

as a customer of MC I feel purchasing an upgrade from 7, 8, 9 ect. IS a service agreement. the actual cost of your first purchase of MC is where you pay actual value of the software. its not manditory that you upgrade to the next version. besides that when was the last time you upgraded to the next version and every thing worked. to me the cost for the upgrade should include bug fixes. you buy a new car,would you want to pay every time somthing dont work,soon as you get it home? I am not trying to slam to xxxx anyone off here, again just an honest customers opinion. If there was a service agreement cost implimented I would have to seriously consider upgrading to the next version until I new it properly funtioned and was a good benefit for the enhancments

[Hardmill]

quote:

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I wouldn't jump to conclusions (yet).

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+1 rob

 

quote:

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it's all about the mighty dollar.

they may be thinking:

" #1 cad-cam in the world "

---

I seriously doubt thats where their coming from

Carlos. We're their #1 priority.

 

PEACE

[Philcott]

Rob and Hardmill,

 

I don't want to jump to conclusions either that is why I came here to see if anyone in the know (ie dealers, in-house, or cnc) could enlighten us.

 

Phil

[Lathe-Mill]

again, we are expeculating here but:

 

According to CNC Software it's by "customer's request".

 

who in the right mind will request to be charge for an "upgrade" (fix of a bug) that you deserv because the sofware not working properly in the first place.

 

I think that is why they have beta versions and tests, so they find all the bugs and then sale them to the people.

 

consumers buy something, hopefully working 100% right.

then developers, create new versions.

then consummers will upgrade to that new version to their discretion and experiences that they have with the previous release.

but until that version that an individual own is not working properly, fixes should be avaliable to the people at no charge.

[Brendan P]

+1 on that may day.

[gcode]

The way it was explained to me, maintenance will be about %10 of purchase price and include upgrades.

 

Buying point release upgrades without maintenance will remain the same price (%15 of purchase price). I don't know if that will include service packs

 

In my opinion, they are doing it to try to create

a more even revenue stream.

Under their current business plan, their revenue

stream dries up as a point release ages. This forces them to rush the next release to market to keep revenue flowing.

I think this is why V9.0 was so buggy when it was released.

In my opinion, V9 was released because the

accountants said so and not because the developement team was ready.

This is all just my personal opinion!!!!

[mayday]

when 10 comes out I'll probly wait 6 months. whatch the furfly er the forum. until its safe to go outside

[robk]

quote:

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who in the right mind will request to be charge for an "upgrade"

---

According to the newsletter it's the "larger customers". And the reason is " so they can more easily budget for software expenditures in the coming year"...

 

Notice all the quotes.

 

Rob

[crazy^millman]

 

Hope this is only a mith cause I think that Version 9.1 sp2 would be the last we every by or use.

 

Ok so if a big company has 26 seats like I have seen around here they would then need to pay them $26,000 a year so if it took 4 years for the next version it would cost them $104,000 dollars in that 4 years verse if they do the pay for version change it would only cost $26,000 hum you do the math but do see that flying over either.

Crazy Millman

 

[ 09-19-2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Millman^Crazy ]

[Lathe-Mill]

You did not copy and paste the whole sentence:

 

who in the right mind request to be charge for an upgrade ""(fixed bug)"".

once the fix all bugs and that version is working 100 %right, make a new version, then charge to upgrade from one version to another.

[Lathe-Mill]

Crazy Millman +1000.000.000

 

i can not imaging the cost for a post.. with out it, we are worthless

 

and you are right also about sp2 being the last one we ever buy also.

 

i will like to see my bosses face when he finds out about that maintanence plan.

[Bullines]

quote:

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like microsoft windows...(WINDBLOWS).

WIN 95, after 5 fixes...version a,b,c,d.

WIN 98 how many versions?...I forgot already

then ME , 2.000 and now XP.

But still the same **** .

---

Now I'm hardly a Windows/Microsoft fan by any stretch but facts are facts.

 

There are 3 versions of Windows 95; Windows 95, Windows 95a (bug fixes and IE included) and Windows 95b (more bug fixes and USB support).

 

There are 2 versions of Windows 98; Windows 98 and Windows 98 SE (IE5 and bug fixes).

 

There is only one version of Windows ME. There are also only one version of Windows NT (6 service packs), Windows 2000 (4 service packs) and Windows XP (1 service pack).

 

There are many versions of other OSs as well. For example, Linux distros release their own versions but the actual kernel goes through many revisions. And in truth, all software is like this. Why? The development of software is very difficult, contrary to popular belief, as well as being a relatively new field. The pen and paper model is a bug-free one.

[Lathe-Mill]

but that is why they have beta versions and testing people, to look for all these problems before releasing the product.

dont release under the trial and error concept.

make sure is working 100% right.

if they are creating any sofware, they should tested 1000%, thru every option possible, they are the ones creating them aren't they?

thaty know better then anybody else how it should work.

don't let us find out what is wrong, cause we gonna be crying at theyr door step, yelling and screaming.

[Toolfab]

I think, maybe, we should all just back off. Nothing has been done yet. This is the first I have heard about it. I am not panicking. Ya, this would be a strange move, but, its there company. They didn't become #1 by pricing themselves out of the compatition.

 

The people from CNC dont need to explain themselves, the guys that hang out in here arent the numbers ($$$$$) guys they are the numbers guys (G83 Y....)

 

We have had faith in them in the past, and they havent screwed us yet..........

 

[ 09-19-2003, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Toolfab ]

[Bullines]

quote:

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make sure is working 100% right.

if they are creating any sofware, they should tested 1000%, thru every option possible, they are the ones creating them aren't they?

thaty know better then anybody else how it should work.

---

I can't think of any software that is 100% bug-free. "Hello world" and other small apps, perhaps, but definitely no commercial or industrial software. Until a massive discovery in software engineering [*ducking from the angry barage expected from Canadian P.Eng's] practices occurs, bugs will be inevitable. Software development is just one of those processes that cannot be appreciated until you've actually had your brain fried during the course of developement. Simply put, bugs will be something we all have to deal with until someone comes along and changes all that.

[Hardmill]

+1 Bullines

100% applies to no software.

 

PEACE

[robk]

FYI- This is a direct word for word article in the newsletter (I hope I'm not breaking any laws here).

 

quote:

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"Many Mastercam resellers have told us that new customers, and especially larger customers, are requesting an annual software maintenance program so that they can more easily budget for software expenditures in the coming year. Users have told us that many times they want to update their Mastercam to get more productive tools and needed features, but their managers have told them the update costs were not in the budget and wasn’t planned for. CNC Software is working towards announcing an optional annual maintenance program in the next few months. This will allow participating users to keep up-to date with new software, updates, and patches all year long. If you are using one of the more popular CAD packages, you know how valuable software maintenance can be. It can save you time and money over the long term, and give you access to the latest and greatest now and the new features sooner than anyone else. Please contact your local Mastercam reseller for more information."

---

Rob

[Scott Bond]

I received a PDF quote for a level one last week for 25% of what the software costs. I called one of the owners to explain that after being a Mastercam customer for nearly 20 years I really don't need that much maintenance and support. The seat in question is only 1 1/2 years old (2002).

So here is my level 1 plan-

My seat is still current right now--9-18-03

I don't accept there quote for 25% for 03

Version EX isn't even on my radar screen

just yet, and I don't know what condition EX

will be in when released, but I'm thinking I will let it mature for a few months before I will depend on it.

So I will most likely avoid it for '04 as well.

Then in 05, I can review the current 25% annually fee,, And my plan to add a new seat every 3 years,

may be better than it is to pay the annual fee.

I don't mind a kicking in a little bit to grease the machine, but I am protesting the request for 25%.

 

[ 09-19-2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[Lathe-Mill]

quote:

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Simply put, bugs will be something we all have to deal with until someone comes along and changes all that.

 

"until then"

fixes should not be charge to the customers.

 

bugs aren't for ever, i think.

 

the way i look at it is, that not every company and individual has the financial stability set.

there are big companys, there are small companys, and the reason people come as far to buy a sofware program, it's not with the intention to make it harder for themselfs, it's to make it easyer and less cost aswell, if that was the case, why not cranck handles?

[Bullines]

quote:

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fixes should not be charge to the customers.

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Large-scale fixes usually come in the form of services packs, patches and updates. Most software companies don't charge end users for those. Some bugs persist for many versions of software (debugging is a skill unto its own). If new functionality is introduced into software, companies charge for those (except for open source software). A professor of mine who loved to go off on tangents once told us something similar to "If you're affraid of being hit by a bus, don't leave the house. If you're affraid of bugs, avoid computer hardware and software".