3 Axis Vertical recomendations

[DavidB]

Im looking for a lower end 3 axis vertical. Lower price tag machine.

Any advice on machine?

 

3D aluminiumn mould work. Basic 2D machining.

 

 

Hartford

Feeler

Anyone know about Mitseiki?

Bridgeport?

Hardinge?

Others?

[Joe788]

No Haas down under?

[#Rekd™]

Doosan.

 

[DavidB]

I wouldn't buy a HAAS sorry

 

Doosan are ok are they? Didn't think of Doosan.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

Low end VMCs would be Feeler, Johnford, Mighty.

Basically any Taiwanese built machine.

Johnford would be the best of those three and it may be incorrect to label them as low-end at this stage.

They've come a long way.

 

Never buy the first year models from any Taiwanese Builder.

Mitsui-Seiki is definitely not a low-end machine.

Mitseiki is a brand I have no first-hand knowledge of.

Hardinge markets Bridgeport under their name and also provide the option to get

an Okuma OSP control. They offer good support here in the states.

 

Doosan makes a good reliable machine.

They are definitely not 'low-end' and the price reflects that.

They are the single largest FANUC control licensee in the world

FANUC has a facility near the Doosan factory to accommodate the demand.

 

Take a look at the DNM series if you are cutting Aluminum.

http://www.doosan.co...520142805484375

 

They come with FANUC AICC High-Speed standard and it's on by default (R5 value).

You can always explicitly call it if you need to change accuracy or speed priority. (R1-R10)

Also look at the 'Ease of Operation' package along with the Renishaw probing interface.

[DavidB]

Thanks MTB

[RaiderX]

Just got a DMG dura 5100 this year and looks to be a pretty solid machine and capable of what you need (ours is loaded).

the Hardinge sure looks good tho, lotta bang for the buck as I see it (lots standard for the price).

 

as always really depends on support in your area.

 

Doug

[Greg Williams]

Okuma Genos

Mori Duratech

 

If they are out of the ballpark I would defiantly look at Doosan. Like you I am not a HAAS fan

 

Second hand?

 

http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/Mori-Seiki-NV5000-40-Vertical-Machining-Centre/79241/

[Chris Rizzo]

Hardinge markets Bridgeport under their name and also provide the option to get

an Okuma OSP control. They offer good support here in the states.

 

Fantastic OSP-200 control! The more I learn about it the more I'm amazed what it can do.

 

I use this machine alot for high-speed steel & aluminum work. Very quick and accurate. Price is very competitive. Linear guides.

 

I've run some original era Mori Duracenters, and the spindles had power, a bit fragile though. Not bad budget machine. Control was nothing fancy. I believe they also are linear guide ways now.

[#Rekd™]

Doosan's are very robust, look at the weight of each machine and it will tell you how it is built. All the motors and drives are FANUC.

 

Flipper has a couple of Johnford machines producing parts 24/7, conact him if you want more info.

[DavidB]

as always really depends on support in your area.

 

Doug

 

+1000

 

Thanks Greg

[scooke4073]

Look at a Mazak VCS. Not exactly "budget" but it is the lowest price offering from Mazak. Easy to program and a stout machine

 

[DavidB]

Thanks Scooke, I'm Looking for something with at least 1 meter X travel

[GoetzInd]

Although not super cheap, the MAkino PS95 is only about $134k (U.S.) and comes pretty loaded. A comparable VF 3 would be at least $115k.

That's the direction I would go.

 

http://www.makino.com/vertical-machining-centers/ps95/

 

Mike

[Guest]

Hwacheon makes a robust machining center. Haas price, Korean quality.

[DavidB]

The Makino PS95 starts at $160K here with no options

[Newbeeee™]

David - check out the Chevalier VMC'S.

We have 1x 660 (that's X travel) and 3x 850's. 3 of the machines are OimC controls and the newest 850 is OimD. The new one's now come with roller ways, face and taper BBT spindle as standard with 4th axis prep, and we only tweaked one parameter for the G05.1 lookahead and it accurately routes at a commanded 7500 feedrate.

Also, we ballbarred the machine and at F1000 it is 4 microns roundness...

The oldest 850 machine which has done a ton of work is 8 years old now, and we ballbarred that and it is good for 8 microns.

 

As for Quaser machines - Bridgeport were selling them in the UK as their own make for a while (opposed to re-badged) but I believe they now have a separate agreement where they can sell Quaser machines, or you can buy them direct from Quaser.

Now a little bird told me that (I better throw a couple of allegedly's in here ) Matsuura alledgedly took the 'best' taiwan VMC'S and narrowed down to 3 makes of machines, to select a partner with them for a 1000 and 1500 (X travel) machine. In their opinion Quaser was (allegedly) the best and they (Matsuura) now sell the Quaser built 1metre and 1.5 metre vertical but with a matsuura spindle and matsuura high speed software loaded - it does look a real sweet machine.

So Quaser are definately worth a look but the only thing I didn't like was the footprint (they are big) and the gap under the table inside the machine - it's not very high so swarf build up could be a problem).

 

Lastly it all depends as well whether front swarf or rear swarf is an issue. We went for the Chevalier machines because we had no space at the rear of the machines, so the swarf comes out the front on 3 and the front side on 1 (through a conveyer). Also, their footprint is small compared to just about everyone elses.

If you want straight out the back and a nice neat solution, Leadwells are a great machine for the money. We had a 10k spindle V25H (now a V30) which was a real money maker and never went wrong (apart from 1x spindle bearing rebuild in 4 years).

[DavidB]

Thanks newbee great info. I don't understand why any Vertical machine would put the swarf to the back. The Makino does the same thing.

 

I don't know if Chevalier are sold down under?

[Newbeeee™]

^{http://www.chevalier...w/com_sales.htm}

^{This says they are sold in a land down under}

^{Our models are the QP2026 and QP2030 http://www.chevalier...pro_qp2033l.htm}

^{Rear swarf is great if you have a bigger workshop where you can back the machines onto a walkway, so swarf can be taken away down the aisle keeping the machines close/adjacent to eachother. It also keeps the front of the machines/operator space clean.}

^{We have this with our 2x robodrills - they are about an inch apart.}

 

^{Attached is an old pic of a few years ago when we had just taken delivery of our fisrt robodrill in only the one unit we had at the time. This was 7 cnc's into 1000 suqre feet We now have 10 into 2000 so it's layed out much better. You can just see the robodrill door ground off/cut to get the left top under the mezzanine floor...we had to do a 50 S clean-up!}

^{The chevalier's are right adjacent to eachother - too close really as to get to the swarf filter basket for the middle machine I have to lay on my back and extract it through the front and I'm getting tooooooo old for this!. We needed about 500mm between them and all would have been fine but we didn't have it- oh and just the one machine (this end) has a conveyor but you would be amazed at the amount of tool reps that seriously asked if the one conveyor emptied all 3 machines}

[within a thou]

^{http://www.chevalier...w/com_sales.htm}

^{This says they are sold in a land down under}

^{Our models are the QP2026 and QP2030 http://www.chevalier...pro_qp2033l.htm}

^{Rear swarf is great if you have a bigger workshop where you can back the machines onto a walkway, so swarf can be taken away down the aisle keeping the machines close/adjacent to eachother. It also keeps the front of the machines/operator space clean.}

^{We have this with our 2x robodrills - they are about an inch apart.}

 

^{Attached is an old pic of a few years ago when we had just taken delivery of our fisrt robodrill in only the one unit we had at the time. This was 7 cnc's into 1000 suqre feet We now have 10 into 2000 so it's layed out much better. You can just see the robodrill door ground off/cut to get the left top under the mezzanine floor...we had to do a 50 S clean-up!}

^{The chevalier's are right adjacent to eachother - too close really as to get to the swarf filter basket for the middle machine I have to lay on my back and extract it through the front and I'm getting tooooooo old for this!. We needed about 500mm between them and all would have been fine but we didn't have it- oh and just the one machine (this end) has a conveyor but you would be amazed at the amount of tool reps that seriously asked if the one conveyor emptied all 3 machines}

 

lol looks like my shop. Not sure if this makes you fel any better but I climb a ladder to my office because I had to cut out the stairs to fit a mill in. Thankfully we just got the permits to move to a bigger location. Building is picked out and we get it Oct 1. I got the permit on friday now the race is on to get the electrical in building layed out. movers in place air installed and to pack everything up. This shop is maybe 1200 sq feet the new one is just over 5000 but I also am taking over 2 sink edms 2 surface grinders and a radial arm drill.

[DavidB]

I still cant seem to find an Australian reseller?

[mig]

Fantastic OSP-200 control! The more I learn about it the more I'm amazed what it can do.

 

.

Chis

 

What exactly options you like so much ?

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Doosan is a great choice

I have one of their turning centers and I make a lot of money with it.

I have a 2412 Sharp VMC. box ways. It's a little tractor. Has a Fanuc 0iMc control on it. 16 tools and 10k spindle.

I think I paid something like $48k for it in 06. Has AI Nano, fully 4th ready. I think it has something like 120 blocks of look ahead.

[#Rekd™]

Do not under any circumstances look at a DMG Eco series....POS machines

[Guest]

Usually something with Eco in the name is not so good. Robodrill would be an ecception. That's all that comes to my immediate mind.