Hydraulic Chucks

[Hertz]

Hey guys, I was going to order some milling chucks for my endmills and I came across a drawer here (new job) with a bunch of hydraulic chucks. About 10 or 12 all brand new not even opened. I just want to know how they hold in comparison to milling chucks or endmill holders. Never used one before so...I want to use them for HSM but I don't want to risk them pulling out. Anyone know the holding force on them?

 

The brand is Erickson and the number on it is CV50BHCT100462

CV50BHCT100462 CV Hydraulic Chuck | Fastenal

 

Also are they ok to hold a weldon type shank? I wouldn't hold weldon endmills but rather insert drills that have a flat or is it a must for cylindrical shanks only?

[rgollar]

I have been using schunk hydraulic holders for over a year now. And I never have had an endmill pull out. But I have found you have to put the endmill all the way in the holder to get full gripping power. And the chucks hold amazing T.I.R. The run out is crazy small which make the endmill last a lot longer. I find changing tools is a lot faster also, its just a turn of a screw. Verses putting the holder in a tool holder and loosing it with a wrench and then retightening it up and using a cheater bar to make it tight as possible. I am sold on them but if the endmill breaks it some times messes up the sleeve which are a little pricey. I have found drills to be a problem to hold some times because if the tool your holding isnt exactly the diameter of the sleeves intended size it will spin. So I mainly just use it for endmills.

[Bob W.]

Damn, if I ever opened one of my drawers and found $5000 worth of unopened hydraulic holders it would make my day :-) I also use the Schunk holders with excellent results and I have been told they work well with Weldon shank tools. My experience with them confirms this though I don't know about Erickson. I'd give Fastenall a call.

[Hertz]

Damn, if I ever opened one of my drawers and found $5000 worth of unopened hydraulic holders it would make my day :-) I also use the Schunk holders with excellent results and I have been told they work well with Weldon shank tools. My experience with them confirms this though I don't know about Erickson. I'd give Fastenall a call.

 

Believe me I was pretty excited about it too. My boss says to me "Oh ya I forgot to tell you about those" lol. They bought them with the machine in 2012 but never used any. Here I go in and they are using ER collets and cheap xxxx endmill holders. I will indeed call someone to confirm the holding of a weldon shank.

If using reduction sleeves, is the clamping forced reduced as well?

[Guest]

I've used thos holders in a BT-40 Configuration and they are excelent. Perhaps there are some better but, regardless, you will be extremely happy with them. I've never used a "to size" E/M with a weldon flat on it, but I have used some with reduction sleeves and not a single tool pulled out. Do yourself a favor and get a/the torquewrench for them. Your holder will last a long time, or if your company is too cheap (doubtful since you had them just layin' in a drawer), use a T-Handle wrench. The LAST thing you want to do is overtighten them and leak hydraulic fluid. If you wna to put drills in them, make sure you get the proper size sleeves. They DO NOT take too kindly to undersized tools.

[Hertz]

No the drills are the right size. The shank is a 1" weldon shank. The holder in question is 1".

I will look into the wrench. I am sure they have one if they ordered all the holders.

Thanks.

[Bob W.]

If using reduction sleeves, is the clamping forced reduced as well?

 

Not sure on that. I use mine with the sleeves all the time and I haven't had any issues with pull out.

[Newbeeee™]

^^^ Same here - we use schunk and have never had an issue. We also use showa micron chucks which are a mechanical >2micron runout chuck. They're a bit longer but rigid as hell.

[Hertz]

Ok, I am getting a lot of mixed feedback about them. Some say stay away from them at all costs (with HSM I mean) and some say they hold really good. I'm used to using Iscar's Power Chucks and while one has never pulled out on me, I was told hydraulic chucks have only half the holding power as Iscar's Power Chuck. I run my HSM very hard so I'm almost afraid to attempt it with the hydraulic chucks. How do hydraulic chucks compare to TG100 collets? I used to use those and got away with them not pulling out before I started using Iscar's Power Chucks. If they hold as good or better than a TG100 collet, I would feel safer to use them.

[rgollar]

I run alot of highspeed machining with my schunk chucks and never had it pull out. I have had the endmill break because I didnt change the endmill when it got dull but never pull out. And example of how fast I run it is a 1/2" 4 flute emco endmill at 9076 rpm and 1.25 depth of cut at .06 step over and never a problem just purrs.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Those look to be Kennametal holders (widia/ericson = kennametal) and they are pretty good. The kennametal guy says they have 20% more holding power than a milling chuck...take that with a grain of salt....it was a kennametal guy who said it. When used with a reduction sleeve they offer MORE holding power than without....a 1" holder has much more pressure than a 1/2" holder, so when you use a sleeve you get the pressure of the 1" holder on the 1/2" shank. All of that being said, I have pulled tools out of them. Then again, I have pulled tools out of heat shrink, milling chucks, collets, ect. I will say they will outperform a TG100 without blinking.

 

Also to hold an insert drill in one of these would be WAY overkill. Typically insert drills are forgiving on things like runout....and that is one area where hydraulic holders shine....very good runout.

[Johnny M]

On a side note, I have nikken / lyndex / schunk milling holders, do you guys tighten them all the way. ( The collar all the way down )

[djstedman]

Well .. I use a 3/4 Schunk hydraulic running an 11Flt 3/4 mill at 3565RPM running 400IPM cutting 1.4 inches deep and .05 wide in 4340.

 

Thats a chipload per tooth of .0102 (.0051 actual when adjusted for radial chip thinning) and we haven't ever had the tool pull out and since we maintain excellent runout we are getting phenomenal toollife.. I am wondering if the people who are trying to tell you not to use hydraulic holders just happen to all be working for the competition..

 

FYI we also have a ton of erikson holders and too date have had no issues with them.. they seem to work as good as the schunk holders at a fraction of the cost..

 

Short of the regofix system or shrink fit I don't think you can find much better than hydraulic holders..

[Bob W.]

Short of the regofix system or shrink fit I don't think you can find much better than hydraulic holders..

 

I have both shrink fit and hydraulic holders and it many instances I much prefer the hydraulic holders. The hydraulic holders have some vibration damping characteristics and they are more forgiving than shrink fit when it comes to chatter. I can take a cutter that is chattering in a shrink fit holder and put it in the hydraulic holder and it will run great. I use the shrink fit when a hydraulic holder isn't available or if I am in tight spaces and I need a lower profile holder. Both are head and shoulders above ER style holders for sure.

[gcode]

We started using the RegoFix system several months ago.

It is not cheap, but works very well

[Newbeeee™]

What I will add is that by memory the showa mechanical holders have twice the clamping force of the schunks. That said I've never had a tool pull out of the schunks but 95% of our parts are ally and where we multi man everything, we don't push that hard with too aggressive stepovers (ally 25%, stainless 10 or 15% depending). We keep it safe incase something nasty happens and no-one is around

[Hertz]

Good to know fellas. Thanks for the input. I started a new job last week and I used to run Milling chucks for my HSM. I used to run parameters like this example in 1018 material

3/4" 5 flute endmill, 2" doc, .075 woc, 6000rpm, 290ipm (About 41 cubic inches/min)

1/2" 4 flute endmill, 1" doc, .05 woc, 6000rpm, 210ipm (About 10.5 cubic inches/min)

I had great success with these types of cut however as mentioned I was using the milling chuck. I was told to not attempt this with the hydraulic chuck as it would likely pull out. lol

Now the new job does not have milling chucks. Its either ER collets or hydraulic chucks. Mind you of course we have a few endmill holders as well.

[crazy^millman]

Get a yellow pain stick and paint the endmill right at the joint of the collet. If the end mill starts pulling out while you are running it trust me you will see it real quick using this method. I am of the mind set they were not using them and you now can sue them, but now someone is scared? Screw that I got a job to do and get back and let me do my job and make you some money is always my 1st choice. It starts to pull out you will see it, but I would think you would break it off before pulling it out.

[Hertz]

Get a yellow pain stick and paint the endmill right at the joint of the collet. If the end mill starts pulling out while you are running it trust me you will see it real quick using this method. I am of the mind set they were not using them and you now can sue them, but now someone is scared? Screw that I got a job to do and get back and let me do my job and make you some money is always my 1st choice. It starts to pull out you will see it, but I would think you would break it off before pulling it out.

 

When I said I was told not to use them, I did not mean at my workplace. I can see how that would be misinterpreted. I meant on other forums people were telling me that.

[crazy^millman]

Hertz use them and let us know how they did. I would be an un stoppable smile if I had them to use.

[Aaron Eberhard]

I've tried to use those hydros with long (7+ inch) undercut tools and I had issues with pullout, but whenever I used them in common side-load endmill applications, they've performed flawlessly and the run-out was excellent. The ones I was using was 3/4" I believe, so the 1" would have more clamping force.

 

I'm with everyone else, smile at your good fortune, and keep an eye on 'em, but I doubt you'll ever have any trouble.