Question for tool and die guys

[guitar]

Material is unheatreated A2. No draft angle, this is a vertical wall. All we have available here is cat40 VMC's, no EDM. Not really looking forward to this.

 

 

Most machinists with any common sense would have the same reservations. This will take you forever to mill. They make EDM's apparently just to p iss off old machinists who have a desperate need to prove themselves...at ANY cost.

[maestro]

Thanks for everyone's input on this.

[Newbeeee™]

^^^Just throwing it out there, but what if the 'old machinist' didn't take on the job?

What if it was a tw4t of an office boy in the sales dept who didn't know much about anything but thought he knew it all?

Just wondering...

[guitar]

Hahaha.

Your still FOS.

 

Did you mean YOU'RE?

[guitar]

Which ones do have certificates for?

 

 

Really? Did you need to be spoon fed your education? Did you need someone to hold your hand to learn? Is machining really that complicated for you? Do you need the world's stamp of approval to do anything? LOL

[maestro]

I tried to explain these things to our estimator and the person who handles this customer, neither of whom have ever had to actually make anything in their life. 40 years of doing this stuff and still trying to educate the uneducated.

[Thee Rickster ™]

Really? Did you need to be spoon fed your education? Did you need someone to hold your hand to learn? Is machining really that complicated for you? Do you need the world's stamp of approval to do anything? LOL

 

Just curious. My mistake, to try and have a civil conversation with you.

 

it won't happen again.

[Micromoldmaker]

Most machinists with any common sense would have the same reservations. This will take you forever to mill.

 

There are many ways to approach a job like this. I would even consider drilling large holes to remove the bulk of material and then go with a bull nose cutter and rip out what remains leaving about .100. That way you can rough out very fast and let your semi roughing (or semi-finishing) tool path bring it in for finishing. . Where I work cavities like this are run over night and weekends. I would not rule out EDM, especially for the 1/8 rad. corners. But electrodes also take time to make and a lot more time to burn. And then there's the cost factor of graphite. On aluminum I would not think twice about milling, on tool steel issues like tool deflection and gouging magnify, not to mention tool wear factor. But I'm just an old toolmaker trying to think something trough.

[maestro]

The tool deflection and gouging by a 13 times dia 1/4 dia ballnose end mill going into a .125 corner radius with a .125 fillet radius are my main worries.

[guitar]

The tool deflection and gouging by a 13 times dia 1/4 dia ballnose end mill going into a .125 corner radius with a .125 fillet radius are my main worries.

 

Rightfully so. You will be hanging out a minimum of 14x the tool diameter. The nose radius magnifies tool pressure 1.57x to that of a flat endmill. That equivalent to hanging out 22x the diameter compared to a flatmill taking the same doc. And, all on tool steel. Yup, EDM.

[crazy^millman]

Look to this tool.

 

http://www.harveytool.com/prod/Browse-Specialty-Carbide-Cutting-Tools---End-Mills/End-Mills/Extra-Long-Length-End-Mills_135/End-Mills---Ball-Extra-Long-Length_117.aspx

 

Many people make these types of tools just for this type of work.

 

The kid doing it one year is the one telling not to use what you got and go in a different direction so take what he says with a grain of salt. I have done it a little longer than a year like some of these other folks and we are trying to help get what you need to get done. Anyone can give up and not try, but a real machinist figures out a way to get the job done which it seems like you are trying to do. Micro, Rick know there stuff when it comes to molds. Been about 15 years since I did molds in Steel, but have cut my share of hard metals and A-2 an the annealed state will be a lot easier than some 17-4 PH in a 50RC condition. Which yes I have cut some very deep cavities in.

[Zoober]

A2 annealed is simply cake. I don't do molds, but all of our production fixtures are A2. We Finish them at 56-60 Rc. Including threads down to 2-56.

The Harvey necked endmills are great. We use them down to .01 dia.

 

 

[Zoober]

 

 

Rightfully so. You will be hanging out a minimum of 14x the tool diameter. The nose radius magnifies tool pressure 1.57x to that of a flat endmill. That equivalent to hanging out 22x the diameter compared to a flatmill taking the same doc. And, all on tool steel. Yup, EDM.

Next year you learn about chip thinning and reducing tool deflection.

[Micromoldmaker]

OK. I forgot to mention that I needed a surface file. And then I found out that I cannot write to an FTP site from here. I created the boundaries as you see in the picture; I hope this gives you an idea of how I would approach the cutting. I would finish the main area with a straight 1/2 carbide end mill, preferably one with a solid body as Ron mentioned. I would then rest mill the corners starting with a 3/8 ball, then a 5/16 and lastly the 1/4. Sorry I can't offer more. Maybe someone else can help more than I can.

 

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb427/fredo_z/diemold_zps864979c4.png

 

[scooke4073]

Rightfully so. You will be hanging out a minimum of 14x the tool diameter. The nose radius magnifies tool pressure 1.57x to that of a flat endmill. That equivalent to hanging out 22x the diameter compared to a flatmill taking the same doc. And, all on tool steel. Yup, EDM.

 

I would love to see how you arrived at 1.57x. You did take into account all the force vectors and bending moments? ....Oh wait, of course you did. You're not the type of person to just spout random #%$*......

 

 

 

 

Administrators: Why is this person's account still open?

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I've only got about 20 years under my belt so I'm still a newbie, but I'm doing a lot of mold detail in hard H-13 right now. I've been roughing with solid carbide high feed mills from Fraisa and Widin that let you do a shallow DOC waterline at a pretty good feed rate (around 200IPM) to within a couple thou of finish, and the tools don't mind a bit of reach.

[Newbeeee™]

 

Administrators: Why is this person's account still open?

Entertainment?

[Newbeeee™]

I've only got about 20 years under my belt so I'm still a newbie,

Hold on right there.

I'm THE newbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Hardmill]

 

Administrators: Why is this person's account still open?

 

Entertainment perhaps, dude is pretty comical :laughing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PEACE

[Thee Rickster ™]

I've only got about 20 years under my belt so I'm still a newbie, but I'm doing a lot of mold detail in hard H-13 right now. I've been roughing with solid carbide high feed mills from Fraisa and Widin that let you do a shallow DOC waterline at a pretty good feed rate (around 200IPM) to within a couple thou of finish, and the tools don't mind a bit of reach.

 

You've probably pick up some incredible useless skill over the years

and even manufactured complex molds on manual mills on a skill-less certifiablly

useless level.

 

I hope you are ashamed of yourself...

[djstedman]

I am only speaking for myself.. but its really more annoying than entertaining.. he's making every thread about his trolling.. please someone drop something heavy on this guy..

[K2csq7]

I'll drop something heavy on him.

 

Every word he posts here has the potential (albeit about the same potential as a M80 that you had in your car trunk for 13 years) to help someone.

If you look close he has posted a couple tid bits of information that may be helpful to someone who has been in the trade for less than a year.

 

He is shooting himself in the foot and he doesn't even know it.

Oh, you need help reloading.... here ya go buddy!

[Thee Rickster ™]

In Time. Let more of his superior prowess show so that ppl know

to take his advice with a grain off salt.

 

It looks more like to me he is just have fun at our expense and trying to

push buttons to get a negative reaction. It's like he's a JB minion trying to

get the good ppl here to say enuf to hurt their reps, so just ignore him.

 

His useless posts will start disappearing.

[Thee Rickster ™]

I'll drop something heavy on him.

 

Every word he posts here has the potential (albeit about the same potential as a M80 that you had in your car trunk for 13 years) to help someone.

If you look close he has posted a couple tid bits of information that may be helpful to someone who has been in the trade for less than a year.

 

He is shooting himself in the foot and he doesn't even know it.

Oh, you need help reloading.... here ya go buddy!

 

He will just delete and or create another account, and be undetected accept that his IP addy has been

recorded.

[Micromoldmaker]

The female part off the die is a curved cavity 3.4 deep with a .125 fillet radius in the bottom of it.

 

 

I would also see about contacting that customer about that 1/8 radius on the corner. If sheet metal designers are anything like plastics designers that radius is a probably a totally random number. It doesn't hurt to ask and see if the radius can be increased.