Tap that was etched wrong

[Johnny M]

Just need to vent a little,

 

In my not to long years of Manual and cnc Machining career ( 20 yrs ) I have never come across a tap that was etched wrong.

 

So to make my story short...

 

Ordered a new Line of Tap's From XXX Company for a new job I'm starting ( 1/2 -13 ..3/8-16 ...5/8-11.... etc... )

I tap to depth on the machine so no hand tapping required.

 

so for 12 days I go on and machine 12 plates, job complete ship plates

 

I get a call today that my 1/2-13 tap holes are no good, how's is this possible ?

 

After a little research my expensive 1/2-13 tap is actually M12 x 1.75 the tap is etched wrong straight from manufacturer.

Came in the right package..

 

So I was feeding the M12 x 1.75 on the cnc at 1/2-13 calculated feed rate.

 

I have never checked standard size tap's, go figure a new line of taps that I try out and get Screwed in doing so...

 

What a freaking mess

 

arrgggg. not what I need at the end of a week....

 

[Bob W.]

That really sucks.  Any way the plates can be fixed through thread milling?  Inserts?

[crazy^millman]

Johnny that is not a good feeling.

[The Cathedral]

I've received bad marked taps before. It was just one in a box; the rest were correct, but it definitely did not have the right etching on it. This was a well-known company, too. Sucks to have that happen.

 

On the plus side, at least you know the taps are strong!

[Johnny M]

That really sucks.  Any way the plates can be fixed through thread milling?  Inserts?

 

Looks Like I will chase the hole with oversized 1/2-13 , the thread doesn't look to bad. I was thinking the same thing keenserts is the other option. ( better than driil / plug / weld / redrill & tap )

 

 

Johnny that is not a good feeling.

 

Yup.....

 

 

I talked to the tool supplier he is also upset ( so he says ) at the Manufacturing Rep about this. When I talked to the Manufacturing rep yesterday his response about this was ( is a sarcastic voice ) Well what do you want me to do about this.

 

Maybe I'm at fault for not checking the tap ? but at least be apologetic and offer me some free tap's or something...

 

I put it to the Manufacturing rep like this.... Go to a gas station and you fill up on Gasoline but get Diesel fuel instead should I taste the fuel before filling up....

 

Anyways I got me some holes to fix....

[elbro]

We always check the threads to a thread gage. Had an operator that was suppose to run 10-32 thread and used M5 X .8 tap. It's close enough to the pitch that it wouldn't break but the thread cut over size. The only way it was caught was with the thread gage.

[Mic6]

That does suck, but it never hurts to run a bolt thru if not a gauge.

[GIZMO 21]

^{20 years doing this, and didn't think to check with a thread gage.}

^{sorry man had to say it.}

[Guest]

^^^^^^^

Yup, don't care what the tap "says" it is........you made it, you gotta gage it

 

Tap manufacturer made a mistake and it got out their door

You made a mistake and it got out your door.....

 

Sucks but it is what it is, a screw up that in this line of work is rather inexcusable.....

[Bob W.]

Right, but how does one know if the gage is engraved correctly?

[civiceg]

By checking the pitch, major and minor diameters of the gage. Reminds me I need to buy a set of thread triangles.

[Newbeeee™]

Right, but how does one know if the gage is engraved correctly?

LOL

[Bob W.]

By checking the pitch, major and minor diameters of the gage. Reminds me I need to buy a set of thread triangles.

LOL!  I'll just take my chances that the tap is good.  At some point one needs to just push forward to avoid analysis paralysis and actually get some work done.  The time wasted checking every end mill, every tap, every drill will FAR outweigh the time lost by actually getting one that was engraved wrong.  Of course that will all change once we are AS9100 certified...

[Guest]

Right, but how does one know if the gage is engraved correctly?

The gage is going to come with an Inspection Cert......

 

unlike said plates  

[Tim Johnson]

Right, but how does one know if the gage is engraved correctly?

Here all gages (purchased or in-house) are verified by our gage inspector on first use/arrival and once a year until they're obsolete.

[Newbeeee™]

errr - I assumed Bob knew about cal certs and national standards?

Hence I LOL'd...

Bob - tell me your question wasn't serious please???

[crazy^millman]

If it were me I would make a claim to my liability insurance. We carry $2 Million worth and for what we are paying for it I wouldn't hesitate to see if this would be covered under it.

 

I also share the thoughts of others, but since I have been labeled the mean old troll so much I was being nice. :question:

[Newbeeee™]

^^^ good call Ron

[Bob W.]

errr - I assumed Bob knew about cal certs and national standards?

Hence I LOL'd...

Bob - tell me your question wasn't serious please???

Not serious, just messing around :-)  There is some underlying frustration in my comments though that it really sucks that nothing can be trusted anymore, you can't take ANYTHING to the bank that it is good without having a system or process to verify it.  We bought a spindle test bar from Command recently and I specifically requested that it be calibrated, certified, and all said documents provided.  Well I had a minor spindle bump so I put in the test bar to verify the spindle and it showed excessive runout.  Just to verify, I put it in the spindle of my two week old makino and it said excessive runout.  I sent the test bar back to Command and they inspected and said it was out of spec and that they would send me another.  I WAS ROYALLY PISSED OFF and I told them to keep it and give me a full refund.  Ordered a test bar from Parlec and it said both spindles were just fine...  It really sucks when we get to the point where we need master gages to verify our gages, etc...

 

This story also reminds me when I measured a calibrated pin gage with my calibrated micrometer and the pin gage measured 0.124" and it was a 0.125" gage pin...   WTF???  I am 99.9% confident in the mic.  Maybe I over torqued the mic.  How many ft-lbs are mics supposed to be torqued to when taking measurements anyways?  Should I need pliers?

 

At the end of the day all of this stuff is produced by humans and we know how fallible humans are.  Unfortunately no process will ever be perfect because it is implemented by people.

[crazy^millman]

^^^ good call Ron

 

Company I was running years ago we ran into an issue that almost created about $3.5 million worth of losses for a customer. We had $10 million worth of insurance. We took some iron Beams clad in SS and had to modify them to move from one machine to the other. We went to our welding vendor and ordered all the special welding rods and followed every process required and laid out. The customer installed them in during the scheduled shut down time. After about 2 weeks several cracks showed up that the NDT did not show and they had to shut down the line. That had told us to scrap the old beams and I had told them we would hold on to them for 6 months. 3am we had them on a truck and back to the customer and they only lost a day of down time verse the 6 weeks it would have been had we not kept the old wore, but still useable beams. We took a section of the welded area and had it tested at a Lab. The Welding Rod was not what they had specified it was. After digging and being not so polite many many times we got to the bottom of the problem. The welding rods marked for 440SS were actually for 304SS. There is a good bit of difference into those properties and the process need to prepare the areas for welding. The vendor paid us for our lost time and what it took to repair it and our customer didn't charge us for the down time which was $30k/hour. Point is I have a lot different experiences and when you have been on jobs where the down time is $304k/hour little thing like this are just par for the course. Where in the world would you see that insane number for down time? Nuclear Power Plant Turbine deck.

[Johnny M]

^{20 years doing this, and didn't think to check with a thread gage.}

^{sorry man had to say it.}

 

No problem,

 

I'm sure many of you have made mistakes that could be avoided also

....

 

 

Well finished all the plates with the larger tap ( Glad that is all over )  Customer not overly pissed but like a few of you have stated... Final product was mine and it was wrong.

 

I know it is as simple as checking the tap with a  thread gauge, but sometimes the for sure things are overlooked.

 

I can tell you that I will be checking my tooling alot closer now.

[mikenaturalice]

I'll refrain from blaming anyone or anything, but I have to ask how many people realistically check their tap before using it? I know if I ordered a 1/2-13 tap and it came in a little package marked 1/2-13 and it was engraved/etched 1/2-13 and it was from a known brand I sure would not have checked it. True enough maybe the plate should have been thread gaged in inspection somewhere... This surely falls in the 'holy crap how did this f*&%ing happen?!' category. On a side note, how long did it take you figure out it was a metric thread? I think I would have been scratching my head for a long time on this one. 

[civiceg]

I always check the major diameter of the tap, mainly because we do a lot of STI tapping and its sometimes hard to read the shank. If its a super critical part I will tap a test piece of material and check the thread with a gage, along with the minor. Most jobs, I just check the first thread in the machine and let her rip after that. Another reason I always check the first thread is that we have alot of over sized taps for jobs that get plated. It burns me up when an operator just throws a part in inspection. So now they have to reinspect the part for a good first piece. Not to mention inspection should be the second line of defense for bad parts, not the only person checking the damn thing. 

[cnc22]

In my mold building days, had an insert cutter with 3 round inserts. Cut a core or cavity. Can't remember? Detail was small. Checked the tool diameter and it was wrong. Had the sales rep come in and he called the US milling manager and he said we had the wrong inserts in the cutter. Got the new inserts and  still wrong.  Called the home office and asked the tech on the other end to get the same cutter body and install the same inserts to see if I lost my ability to read a micrometer. Reply was that everything was as it should be. Had the rep come back in, showed that  things were still not right on their newest great cutter and he took it, sent it back to the home office. Rep came back in a few weeks later, I asked if he heard anything about the cutter and he said they figured out that the whole lot that came from across the pond was wrong. Asked him how is that ISO 9000 Stuff working for you. I still have the visual in my head of the tech at the home office twirling his finger around his head as he talked to the idiot on the other end of the line that can't read a micrometer because there is no way we could make a mistake.

[civiceg]

ISO is the minimum, every contractor we deal with has there own audit.