Yasda H40i, Matsuura MAM72-63V +...?

[?Mark]

Yasda  H40i, Matsuura MAM72-63V are added to the choices of machines we're looking at in addition to DMU60evo and Variaxis I-800.

 

Surfacing and multiaxis cutting of mostly aluminium for aerospace.

 

Must have: fast spindle, fast accel/deccel, fast feedrates, fast control to mach it

 

Big decision for us, as this will involve a multiple equipment purchase to completely replace 3 FMS systems in place (7 HMC's in total).

 

Any and all opinions are valued.

 

If James M was local to Colorado the decision might have been a bit easier...

 

TIA

[Newbeeee™]

 

If James M was local to Colorado the decision might have been a bit easier...

 

TIA

Have plane ticket will travel...

[?Mark]

LOL, support is paramount

[Henk]

Makino !! ??

[?Mark]

Yes, makino too, but don't know the model yet...the rep will be here in few minutes

[PAnderson]

I worked at a mold shop that bought two Yasda Precision VMC's. We also had Makino's and Mori's. There was no comparison, Yasda outperformed the others hands down. These were awesome machines. Glass scales on all three axis, chilled ballscrews with thermal comp on all axis. No coolant tank, used MLS using vegetable or mineral oil w/air thru spindle or external air blast. This machine did not use or even recognize G00, had to use all G01's. Worth every penny for high speed machining. This was a few years ago, hope they are still as good.

 

Paul

[crazy^millman]

Well 2 of those machines are not even in the same league as the others. A lot of factors to consider and 2 of the machines you list here would not be on my list. One of the brands I like and have been around for years, but would not put it in the same class as what I consider top 2.

 

4th Generation lights out or 1st Generation lights out?

 

Control for 3 will be about the same if you add the Makino to the list. The other 2 controls will be different if your shop has been a Fanuc house for many years. What tools and work holding are compatible from the old system to the new would be a huge part of the decision making process.

 

Again so many thing to factor that I would really need to study and review things to make the best decision possible.

 

Please let us know what you come up with. Good luck in your process and decision.

[cincy k]

I just purchased a Matsuura MX-520. I was struggling with the idea of the distributor in my area being relatively new with Matsuura. The install had a few hiccups but the support and training directly from Matsuura has been terrific. I was trained by Sean Ormson. He knows his stuff to say the least. James M has also been a great deal of help on a few issues. He's clear across the country from me and doesn't know me at all and is still willing to help. Pretty amazing and cool if you ask me... 

I visited Matsuura in St. Paul a few weeks ago. They're small enough to care but large enough to give good support. I've been pleased with my experience so far.

 

I also looked at a couple year old H40i before purchasing the Matsuura as well. The Yasda Fanuc integration with some of the things I wanted to do was lacking. Methods is using a software developed for them to control the tool info and pallet info. It has the same functionality as Matsuura as I understand it though the Matsuura MIMS is much better integrated in the operator control panel. Methods was using RFID for the tooling which is sweet, I know this can be added to many Matsuura machines as well. Yasda was persistent on using BT tooling which I understand though it wasn't the best fit for me at the time.

 

Both Matsuura and Yasda are great machine builders. Matsuura definitely has a broader installed base running lights out. Yasda and Methods are hungry to fill the market and replace what they lost when Methods and Matsuura split in the US a couple years ago. 

[dstryr]

Methods seems to be pushing this technology venture buy back Yasda from 2005 (installed 2010) to a lot of local shops here. They offered it to me but couldn't justify that much money on something built in 2005. The Yasda seems like a very impressive machine but according to methods there is only like 1 in California and its down in Los Angeles area.

[Guest]

Thanks for the kind words Mark and Cincy K. I really appreciate that.

 

Mark, Dave H. @ Matsuura actually e-mailed me this morning. I told him I was game to be on loan to you guys for a project. I just told him he had to go through my boss.

 

Sean Ormson @ Matsuura is a great guy. He helps me out often. Especially with the new stuff I've not seen until it shows up on a customer's floor.

 

Yasda... they make some of the finest equipment (precision-wise) known to man. But DAYUM you will pay for it too. The 5-Axis Yasda machine in LA... I programmed a 5-Axis part on it back when I was independent... That was like 8 years ago. I programmed a Titanium part. They offered me a job after they ran the part. For sick money. It would have been a higher tax bracket than the one I'm in now. I love what I do AND whom I do it for so much I'm willing forgo some money.

 

If you're new to 5-Axis, you can't put a price on support. Good AE's that know their stuff are worth their weight in gold. :

 

Personally I try to help out as many people as possible. My customers take priority but I try to accommodate. I can't help it.

[civiceg]

I can't believe all the hand scraping on Yasda's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9bSUNxIHJ0

Look at em go,  something I would love to learn. 

[Newbeeee™]

Look at em go,..

ROUR!

It's all in the hips I tell you

[?Mark]

Thanks for the kind words Mark and Cincy K. I really appreciate that.

 

Mark, Dave H. @ Matsuura actually e-mailed me this morning. I told him I was game to be on loan to you guys for a project. I just told him he had to go through my boss.

 

Hi James,

I specifically asked if you could be the AE on this if we go that route.

It's a great equipment and the tool changer is a real standout.

We're narrowing things down to 3 machines on a PO: 500HMC MAM72-35v and MAM72-63v

We'd love to have a chance to pick your brain on it, but it's still in the early stages 

[BenK]

Hand scraping it definitely an art. Thanks for sharing the video.

 

The video also shows me that I have been pronouncing Yasda wrong all these years. 

[Pitka_Guru]

I did the same research at the end of last year, and had similar machines in mind. I started two threads one was high speed machine tool suggestions and high speed machine tool suggestions part 2.

 

The guru's on the forum provided great advice and after reading user opinions i ruled out the DMG right away. The next one to go for me was Mazak, I just don't think it has the speed nor the packaging that Matsuura, Mikron or Makino have. Mikron was out of the price range but used it to show the difference in machine capability.

 

We ended up with a Mazak i600 with a pallet tech system. The pallettech is huge where as,the Matsuura is nice and compact in comparison. Also has a much better tool storage system In my opinion. Price for a mam72-63 with 6 pallets was pretty much identical to the Mazak with a palletech. The price difference was the Mam had glass scales on all axes.

 

Mazak won because of local support but I don't believe it is in the same league as Matsuura for this type of work. Our reseller would have been on another continent and as a company we weren't happy with that. My money would be on a Matsuura all things being equal.

 

best of luck with your search and check those other threads as the guru's posted some great info.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Just out of curiosity....isn't the Yasda double if not triple the price of a similar sized Matsuura?

[?Mark]

Yasda is actually very well priced for what it is...20k spindle, 24 pallets, 240 tools for well under 1 mil..

[Newbeeee™]

Yasda is actually very well priced for what it is...20k spindle, 24 pallets, 240 tools for well under 1 mil..

Mark - out of interest, what model Yasda and what model Matsuura are you comparing against?

[?Mark]

Topic title machines plus mazak and dmg.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Yasda is actually very well priced for what it is...20k spindle, 24 pallets, 240 tools for well under 1 mil..

I am surprised. A MAM 72-63V with 17 pallets & those other options would be approaching that price point. Then with the MAM you would be in a linear pallet pool, with the option of adding more machines. The Yasda looks to be more "stand alone".

 

Maybe the Yasda price jumps through the roof when you get into their jig bore machines?

[Newbeeee™]

Topic title machines plus mazak and dmg.

Errr yeh, sorry (he says putting his head back into the bucket of sand...)

[?Mark]

LOL

[Sticky]

Yasda is actually very well priced for what it is...20k spindle, 24 pallets, 240 tools for well under 1 mil..

 

 

I did the same research at the end of last year, and had similar machines in mind. I started two threads one was high speed machine tool suggestions and high speed machine tool suggestions part 2.

 

The guru's on the forum provided great advice and after reading user opinions i ruled out the DMG right away. The next one to go for me was Mazak, I just don't think it has the speed nor the packaging that Matsuura, Mikron or Makino have. Mikron was out of the price range but used it to show the difference in machine capability.

 

We ended up with a Mazak i600 with a pallet tech system. The pallettech is huge where as,the Matsuura is nice and compact in comparison. Also has a much better tool storage system In my opinion. Price for a mam72-63 with 6 pallets was pretty much identical to the Mazak with a palletech. The price difference was the Mam had glass scales on all axes.

 

Mazak won because of local support but I don't believe it is in the same league as Matsuura for this type of work. Our reseller would have been on another continent and as a company we weren't happy with that. My money would be on a Matsuura all things being equal.

 

best of luck with your search and check those other threads as the guru's posted some great info.

 

You could stick one of the new Hplus500's and the Mam72-63v in the same FMS

 

How far under 1mill is the Yasda? That sounds like a really good deal and probably really close in price to a similarly equipped Mam72-63.

[?Mark]

900K

[Sticky]

That is a ton of world class capacity for 900k!