O/T How do you make your programs?

[robk]

Just a curiosity question for the programmers/operators out there... Do you write the whole program first than machine the job, or do you program and run the machine as you go along? When I was the only one doing the programming in here it was obvious to make the whole program first than to machine the finished product by the operator. Now that I'm not doing all that much programming anymore it is up to the operators to write their own programs. With the lead times being as short as they are nowadays I find it a lot quicker for the operators to program and run the job pieced together.

Example; program the rough pocket and while the machine is running make the rest of the program. I understand that there are different situations, and that is not always possible (use common sense). I find the programming times and machining times to come down drastically (machine is running most of the time, and programming done @ no cost). I just want to get a feel of how other shops that don't have dedicated programmers utilize their time.

[Gary]

YEp thats the way I do it hear to. I do all the programming and all the machine operating unless its a production job then i put someone on it to load the parts. If the cycle times are long enough i will program the rest of the job while the machine is cutting. Bur sometimes I will just program the whole job and while the machine is cutting i will get started programming the next job to run. Its nicer that way not so much running teh xxxx off.

[Dan Bedore]

for cutting die models with a 5-axis machine. i always write while i cut because i have a better feel for the model as i go.plus as you say the programming is at a lower cost since the machine is running.

[mayday]

Even as a dedicated grammer I dont always have time to write the full prog. a lot of one piece jobs come in as a solid only no print. so while the operator is setting up the job I will gram enough opps to get him going then I stay ahead of him by a day or so. Quantity jobs I try to gram complete. With as many mach. that we have to gram for its hard to write complete prog. for them. If we keep the spindles turning thats all that matters.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

thats kind of how it goes here since we all programe and run our own jobs most of the time we get the job running ruffing or milling the first ops and as machine is cutting were programming and setting up tools for the rest of the ops or making fixtures for future ops then at the end after things are run and proffed out go back into mastercam and update the programe so all ops and fixture programes are upto date and saved to the job file and the server... works out pretty good for us were an oem manufacture and our stuff is mostly one or two pc jobs with some production

[Zero]

quote:

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program the rough pocket and while the machine is running make the rest of the program

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Though this is really not the ideal situation, this is usually what I do as well. Like you said, lead times are always tight and things are due off the machine yesterday, so most of the time this is what needs to be done to hit the deadline. On parts where I have the time, I will try to write them all first and then run it. This also allows time for thinking about the whole project and it's relation to the part you're programming. Too many times I've seen stuff get hustled on to the machine without everyone fully comprehending the project as a whole, only to shoot yourself in t he foot saying "damn we shoulda done it this way", but hey, never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it twice right

[Rekd™]

I've made parts so complicated that I didn't know how I was going to fixture it until previous ops were completed. Imagine not knowing if what you did on Op 1 will work when you get to Op 3 on a $4,000.00+ part..

 

I've also had jobs that I couldn't visualize the part until it was fully programmed and/or partially machined.

 

'Rekd teh Pucker Factor 7

[Zero]

quote:

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Imagine not knowing if what you did on Op 1 will work when you get to Op 3 on a $4,000.00+ part..

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been there, done that

[Hacsta]

quote:

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I didn't know how I was going to fixture it until previous ops were completed

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amen to that

 

+1000 pucker factor

[chip]

quote:

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program the rough pocket and while the machine is running make the rest of the program

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Here we each have our own projects, So each Mold Maker does things slightly different. I like to keep the machine running as much as possible....Seems to make the Bosses happier! Also I get a lot of lea way at times if the machine is running surfaces for 2 days.

[Trevor Bailey]

For the reason Rekd said, is the exact reason I use the WCS. Normally I will program OP1 complete to get the machine running, then finish the job. After that, I rely on the WCS for verifing. I know that leaves a bad taste in some peoples mouth, but it has saved me numerous times and a lot of guess work on the floor which from past experience if I had not used the WCS, the machine would have been down, no fixtures made in time for the next op, no programming done, etc....

[Nominal]

Hey Robk...greetings from Newington.

Our situation is different because of the nature of the work and because I'm a dedicated programming M.E. Some jobs I just need to keep ahead of the shop by an op or two, other jobs need to be thought through in their entirety before cutting a chip. Everything other than tooling that we make is driven by the customers design and 98% of it is aircraft so everything has to be good to their prints. Almost all of our parts have to be MPC so all the operation drawings/first piece and in process sheets/fixtures/gages/tooling/SOP's and process instructions have to be called out prior to having a an FQE come in and do a first article.

Kinda sucks but I'm never starting jobs that I don't understand 100% first, from material specs right down to marking, packaging and shipping.

Happy New Year.

[Jammer™]

Well where I am at now, we have 4 grammers, and 3 operators. The machines stay fed so we write our whole programs before they go out to the machines. Starting on the 5th, I will be at a new job. I will be the only person in the shop. It is a brand new shop, all brand new machines. I will be doing all the programming, all the cnc running, and all the manuel labor myself. Yes, you could say, I will have it made. I will be learning/doing 4 axis machining, so get ready to field all the questions I will have guys/gals.

 

[ 12-30-2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: jammer ]

[Zero]

quote:

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I'm never starting jobs that I don't understand 100% first, from material specs right down to marking, packaging and shipping

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lucky man

[Müřlıń®]

My situation is a little diffrent.

 

I build forging dies and even though the part might be diffrent, the dies are basiclly the same in the end. There is a top and a bottom.

The dies bolt to the table the same way.

ect....

 

Since I am the programmer and the operator and the engineer, I will go to my customer and pick up a job.

 

It usually comes in the form of a hand drafted 2-d print. Sometimes I get lucky and can get an IGES of the part.

 

So if I waited until I got everything drawn and programmed.......well you see my point.

 

With Mastercam, I am able to start cutting chips within the hr of a job entering my shop.

 

I start off by starting machining on the simple stuff on my die block that can be modeled up quickly.....i.e. clearance gates, preform impressions and die prep.

 

While my machines are making chips I will engineer the die.

 

Most of the time, my machines are waiting on me to feed them a program.

 

Once I have a 3-d surface model of the dies engineered, I program one path at a time, verify it, then cut it. There is usually not much time to do it any other way if I want to get the dies done before x-mas......Bout half way thru the job I might get caught up on the programming.

Or if I feel ambitious and take the job home and model it.

 

I rely on Mastercam's verify to be 100% correct.

(I cut no butterboard)

 

At the end of the day I will not go home until I have a toolpath for each machine that has been verified and is ready to run.

 

So it is very important to do things correct the first time without any glitches.

 

I know it sounds like a helter skelter way of doing things, but it's worked for me for many years since I have no help...

 

Murlin

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I program complete then machine. Too many possibilities to screw up if I only go Op by Op. There's things you just can't take into account until you see the material gone. I should preface this that most of my parts are "hog outs". Often I machine away 80% or more of the mass of a part.

 

JM2C

 

Plus, when you go Op by Op, it gives the boss more opportunity to "make improvements" to your program. How many of us like that????

 

[ 12-30-2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[STEELTHOM62]

I program op by op when possible, but, since I'm the only one here that runs my machine and the only one here who uses MC, sometimes I have to program the entire part.

That's why this forum is so important to me. I can usually answer any questions by doing a search or two.

Everyone else here progams in Mazatrol and none of them has ever programmed using Gcode.

[Scott Bond]

I do everything that I can think of first, then I write a book that explains and records the entire project, and then hand it over.

[robk]

quote:

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Hey Robk...greetings from Newington.

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Nominal, I never knew we were living in neighboring towns. Let me know if you ever need parking for Berlin Fair

[chad fisher]

Here i program op by op for the vmc, but i also run a wire edm. Usually i can keep both going with doing the programming in between set-ups using my run time. Like someone else stated, on some parts you never know how there gonna work till you get almost to the end. I like it this way because it keeps your mind thinking!

[Tony]

Carbon I program start to finish

Because some thing might snap off

so i might have to shuffle around

how I got That far so it won't snap off.

 

Steel I usually have a rough / semi/ finish

set of operations

Because here at the Country club

They Want the machines running...

Only then there paying for themselves.

slamming a few operation into them at a time

Creates that picture they want.

[crazy^millman]

Well I do it all I wrtie soem completely al lthe way out other I d oalong and along and otehr I don't have a clue till I get to the last operation. I fully understand the parts where you may have 2 weeks on just one part and then you may also have 5 to 10 other job going on at the same time. I may write 20 programs print out all the set-up sheets and then i might only get one thign going on one job. Each job each part and every operation leand itself to what works best. It also depends on how full you plate is. I d oall the Quoting, Ordering, Scheduleding, I also deal with soe mcustomer, answer all techinal question related to Machining, I deal with vendors from Casters, welders, Andoziners, I have to answer the boss question, problem slove when machiens go down, make decisions on new machine purchaes thre this year, Make sure we had riggers for those machine, and the other 100 hats I wear.

 

Crazy Millman

[Müřlıń®]

Mill, you are just a one man army

 

 

 

Murlin

[CAM-mando]

Insane Millman,

 

We need to get you a secratary.

 

[Zero]

quote:

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Insane Millman,

 

We need to get you a secratary

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and maybe a good spellchecker

 

[ 12-31-2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Zero ]