OT - Bush's Immigration reform

[beav700]

"President's proposal would allow illegal immigrants to stay here if employers vouch for their jobs"

 

Wow. No one is talking about this in here. Specially you guys down in Ca. I'm surprised.

[SledGeek]

Do a search on this subject.......

 

I'm not sure anyone could possibly have more to say about it

[Dan Bedore]

I can't say much about illegal immigrants except that if i were from a country where i couldn't feed my family I would go where i could feed them even if I had to swim the river and be illegal. alot of Illegals I have known in the past work circle around US citizens.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Why are some blessed to be born into one country and not another??? Not for me to decide, but I will say till my dying days is "Illegal is illegal. The thought of rewarding people for breaking the law is horifying to me. Also that Mexico is attempting to dictate policy to us is equally as horrifying." The thought of a country so rife with corruption dictating ANYTHING to us is an outright abomination.

 

I believe that law abiding people that have waited patiently either in foreign lands or here legally should be rewarded, NOT those baby factories that crawl, swim, come over in shipping containers, across our border, squeeze out some pups so they can leach off us hard working tax-paying people. Send 'em back I say. My ancestors came here legally, they shoudhave to also.

 

[ 01-07-2004, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Lathe-Mill]

quote:

---

I can't say much about illegal immigrants except that if i were from a country where i couldn't feed my family I would go where i could feed them even if I had to swim the river and be illegal. alot of Illegals I have known in the past work circle around US citizens.

---

[Peccator]

James, you get an atta boy. Right on.

[Brendan P]

These employers who hire these "illegals" are like slumlords.

This just promotes the employers to keep their wages at inhumane standards.

 

[M. Anderson]

James,

 

ATTA_BOY!!!

 

 

This country got where it is by having a very diverse group of people from which to grow.

 

(No matter the current state it is in!)

 

That same diverse group of people established LAWS that EVERYONE was to follow.

 

I have no problem with any one group - minority or majority - purple, green, black, white, brown or red - makes no difference to me!

 

If they are here -Illegaly - their work practicies, abillities, or anything else they can or cannot do has no bearing!

 

ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL! Send them home!

 

Just my .00000000002

 

Not that it would change anyone's mind!

 

Mark A.

[jspangler]

Hi

Just wondering how we are supposed to have any possibility of "Homeland Security" with this BS?

 

Didn't Davis try the same type of thing with the Drivers licenses for illegals, as a last ditch effort to stay in office?

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what he's trying to do here???

 

Just my .02

 

John

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

One good point for the carolinas is that most illegals here send upto 75% of their money back to mexico, and now that money will be spent in the state now.

[gcode]

Since the 9/11 terror attacks we have be

much more aggressive about stopping illegal

crossings of our borders.

This has had one unintended side effect.

A lot of the people who come up here from the south are seasonal farm workers.

They used to come North, work the harvest season

and go back south. SInce we clamped down on the border, the folks who get across, don't go back when the harvest is over.

This latest immigration reform is aimed at these people. Bush is hoping that allowing agriculutrual

workers to cross the border legally will restore

the seasonal migration patterns

[Joels]

its kind of funny. they take pictures and finger prints at the airport. They will give 8-10 million illegal amnesty if they work here. The gov has no idea who these 8-10 million people are or where they came from. Seems to me something is wrong.

[AMC]

I personaly have alot of respet for the MEXICAN . Yes I am an emploier, Yes I was born a Texan.

 

I believe that we all have respect for one another. I understand that some believe that:

 

quote:

---

employers who hire these "illegals" are like slumlords.

---

but America would fall apart without this type of labor.

 

The INS was making only a point when they busted WalMart, in my oppinion, very stupid. Because the INS knows that:

 

quote:

---

"illegals"

my correction - not only Hispanic

---

keep America beautiful

 

As far as the Mexican going home for the weekend, Yes, Its a bum deal, but it is not illegal for illegals to work in America .

 

¡Para todo el ilegal, la buena suerte y tiene un día maravilloso. El trabajo duramente!

 

 

Andrew!

 

Isn't Mastercam the best!

 

[ 01-08-2004, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: AMC ]

[Joels]

here we go again. Everytime people say illegal some people automatically assume people mean "mexicans" I dont believe anybody has refered to illegals as mexicans so i dont think we should do it now. illegal means illegal regardless of where they came from.

 

[ 01-08-2004, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: watermaker ]

[AMC]

illegal means illegal, its illegal to not withold, not to employ.

 

Employ, withold, stamp and send.

 

Tax is Tax. paied or not.

 

 

I honestly have not Idear what I'm typing about.

 

Man, isn't mastercam great!

 

Andrew.

[Charles Davis]

Being 30 miles from the border, this law will affect us a lot, so I have been listening carefully to the news about it.

 

IMHO from what I've heard so far, it's not a bad plan.

 

This will allow people to go back to MX when the harvest season is over. As I understand it, some money will be set aside in a trust fund to be given to them as a payment on their way back to MX. That will allow some of them to buy a small farm or open a small biz in MX.

 

I'm still trying to figure out the unintended consequences of this, but they may cut both ways.

 

For example, a co in San Diego hires a CNC Operator from MX. That allows them to remain in business in the US, rather than closing shop or moving the whole biz to MX. That operator becomes skilled, then goes back to MX, which helps build the MX economy, which reduces the incentive to illegally immigrate to the US.

 

All that said, I'd feel a lot better about all this if MX would truly reform it's corrupt political system, which is the main reason it's economy lags so much. But maybe if we get enough people coming here for a short stay, they'll take some of what they've learned about our free market economy back to MX and encourage change.

 

All I know now is the system is totally broken. We do need a logical, rational guest worker program. Sticking our head in the sand won't solve it.

 

I know this is a very emotional issue and I expect to get flamed. Fine. I know a lot of these Mexican workers and they are good people who are doing what I'd do if I were in their position (or die trying!). We can be rational, compasionate, and also benefit our economy and our neighbors to the south too.

 

Look at it this way; how many Canadians immigrate to the US, or the US to Canada? Not many. Why? Everyone really wants to stay in their homeland.

 

It's only when the two economies are so disparate that people are willing to leave home and risk their lives. As MX rises, fewer people will immigrate. A stable, cooperative relationship with our neighbors is to our advantage too.

 

Think positive and work towards rational policies. Don't get sucked into the "blame immigrants for everything" thoughts.

 

BTW: I belong to the party of Lincoln who freed the slaves, preserved the Union, defeated defeated Communism, and is winning WW3.

[A-ron1286490684]

quote:

---

They used to come North, work the harvest season and go back south. SInce we clamped down on the border, the folks who get across, don't go back when the harvest is over. This latest immigration reform is aimed at these people. Bush is hoping that allowing agriculutrual workers to cross the border legally will restore the seasonal migration patterns

---

While I agree with you G-code and you Mr. Davis on 99% of your respective political views -I think this is nothing more than pandering for votes. The sad thing is that a true conservative, (having more loyalty to conservative causes than any party affiliation), might be alienated by these actions and it could cost more votes than the party would gain. And if it is a matter of posturing only, (knowing it will be defeated by congress but appearing to be for it), whose to say it wont be obvious and figured out as such by the people they are trying to get on the voter base.

[Lathe-Mill]

+1 exactly

quote:

---

One good point for the carolinas is that most illegals here send upto 75% of their money back to mexico, and now that money will be spent in the state now.

---

+1 better know who is your neighbor

quote:

---

its kind of funny. they take pictures and finger prints at the airport. They will give 8-10 million illegal amnesty if they work here. The gov has no idea who these 8-10 million people are or where they came

---

-1 cause has benn said here and quote, even a picture of a drivers license was posted here,even saying that if the gov. will allow them to shoot as the cross the frontier, funny thing is the terrorist and killers are the ones shooting at us and they don't even look mexican or are leaving in this country. legals and illegals died on 9/11.

quote:

---

here we go again. Everytime people say illegal some people automatically assume people mean "mexicans" I dont believe anybody has refered to illegals as mexicans so i dont think we should do it now. illegal means illegal regardless of where they came from.

---

+1000

quote:

---

I know this is a very emotional issue and I expect to get flamed. Fine. I know a lot of these Mexican workers and they are good people who are doing what I'd do if I were in their position (or die trying!). We can be rational, compasionate, and also benefit our economy and our neighbors to the south too

---

+1000000

quote:

---

Think positive and work towards rational policies. Don't get sucked into the "blame immigrants for everything" thoughts.

---

+1 bottom line

quote:

---

this is nothing more than pandering for votes.

---

this country needs "illegals as you call them" (undocumented people) think about it, I dont think anyone here will give up all the pretty toys and good things of life for a minimun wage...our way of thinking is.."lets work hard,educate ourselfs,put are kids tru college and enjoy with our familys the fruits of it".

no buddy will say.."lets work hard for minimum wage and give up our life stile".

 

 

as someone mentioned, if they come, learn something from us, they will go back and improve they social economics, they will became competitive, so the companys trying to send the work overseas, will need to think 2 or 3 times if it is worth it, cause the prices are competitive with us...right now they are working at theirs countrys for a bowl of rice, without knowlege, with knowlege they will compete at a higher rate and companys here will might stop sending the work overseas. that is what i think we need, and the unemployment lines will be a lot shorter here. (hopefully none)

 

[ 01-08-2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Lathe-Mill ]

[Charles Davis]

Gee, us Mastercam Machinists are a pretty enlightened bunch; I'm impressed. So much for the beer swilling, Neanderthal image of the machinist. Well, maybe the beer swilling part is still valid.

 

Seriously, nice to see a lot of thoughtful, educated, peaceful thinking. I guess it's true that the smart machinists choose Mastercam!

 

WOT: Speaking of beer: any culture (Mexico) that can brew Bohemia (brand) beer has the potential to be a 1st world country!

 

[ 01-08-2004, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Charles Davis ]

[JG]

just my 2 little pennies worth.....

 

exactly who did WE steal this land from ????

 

and justified it how ?

 

and managed it by voting the past/present/future politicans, who have no accountibility to the people, only have to put on a horse and pony show b/4 elections (funded by who?), promise the world,

 

you know the rest.... your living it!

[Polite Luther]

And make 'em learn ENGLISH.

 

Sounds like a way to have easy access to a cheap labor pool. They say these are jobs no Americans want, but now are giving you up to a whopping two weeks to apply for one.

 

This whole mess sends one big message "We are overwhelmed and can't prosecute the law breakers, so come on up so at least we can get cheap labor out of the deal."

 

The problem is, while they're hear they'll be popping out little bambinos who are automatically citizens. Free education, free health care, can't deport the parents.

 

At best guess we have 8-10 million illegals in this country. With this policy we'll have 50 million by 2025.

[Lathe-Mill]

quote:

---

The problem is, while they're hear they'll be popping out little bambinos who are automatically citizens. Free education, free health care, can't deport the parents.

---

.

with the reform, they are leagal, pay taxes like you and i. so the little bambinos deserve that education and health care.

 

altough some of the illegals now, pay taxes and have health insurance also.

 

ITIN = individual tax identification number

[Charles Davis]

I think you raise a few good points. The constitution was changed long ago to automatically make anyone born on US soil a citizen. This was done to remove any trickery, etc. that would prevent slaves from becoming citizens.

 

The law is antiquated and probably should be changed. Right now we have people crossing the border just in time to give birth so the child will be a citizen and entitled to welfare, etc.

 

I'm not sure how large of a problem that really is, you just hear a lot of anecdotal stories living near the border.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...And make 'em learn ENGLISH...

---

+1000

 

Where I work, there is a LARGE percentage of workers from other countries and they speak broken english at best yet complain that they cannot get ahead. I tell them learn english, stop speaking your native tongue at home and start speaking english. They balk. I tell 'em "...Enjoy your menial job because until you learn and master english your possibilites are limited..."

 

Back in the day, immigrants forced their children to learn and speak english. No more. Whe should they? We print voter guides in every language on the planet. That costs us millions EASILY. Start printing government stuff ONLY in english because so many immigrants use government services. Ever take a trip down to County USC Medical center??? I went there once because at the time I did not have medical coverage. The idiot behind the counter started speaking a foreign language to me. Boy I went on a rant....

 

Speak english or go home!

 

OUT!

 

 

JM2C

[TheePres]

My father came from poor state in Mexico, to work under "Bracero" program. Each morning he would leave house in Mexicali at 3:00AM to walk to US border and catch a bus to arrive at his dream job, of $1.25/hr picking strawberries, by 7:00am.

He would arrive home at 10:00pm just to go to bed to do all over again next day.

How much easier it would have been for him to illegally live in US. But,he never considered moving MOM and my older siblings here until they got their green card after 7 yrs.

I am almost positive that my father is not a rare exception. So ask that you guys consider this..at your next Mexican Bashing Party.

Ill join you all in a good "Send the Illegals back to Mexico" rally, though.