O/T Can we talk?

[Jack Mitchell]

From time to time, I peruse the columnist articles in search of some kind of sanity regarding world events; maybe this is a good thing or perhaps only fuels my anger towards things that I cannot understand or control. At least I am not buying the National Inquirer at the check out yet.

 

Sidney Blumenthal shows a potential for “cutting to the quick” concerning party television ads, Spanish elections, and running away from terrorism.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318-07.htm

 

Also, a brief from Kathy Kelly, a rather articulate activist soon to be a four month inmate in a US federal prison for her participation in civil disobedience at Fort Benning, GA.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0319-14.htm

 

While patiently awaiting version “X”, I though it might be nice to hold debate on some of today’s hot topics.

 

IE: I have yet to see any news feeds or articles addressing this basic question.

Is Saddam more dangerous today, now that he is in captivity?

 

Once again, I caution that many forum members have differing opinions on such sensitive issues and I request that we be polite and respectful of others.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Scott Bond]

When I saw the news on 9-11,, I thought I was watching a badly made movie seen,, but it was

in fact the news. I was watching with my kids,

I saw the second plain hit and I personally realized that it was no accident, I saw the

first building come down then the second

building come down. I remember having to tell

my kids that, people were in fact dying. I remember the news showing people in foreign countries dancing for joy in their streets.

 

I remain unimpressed with world leaders that

have chosen a "to pee in their pants" instead

of fighting these pieces of crap.

 

Spain does not dictate who will be the next

USA leader.

 

On 9-11 The world was divided into two categories, you are a terrorist or you were

not, if you support a terrorist then you are

a terrorist.

For Scott Bond nothing has changed.

 

This is my opinoin,,,you are welcome to yours

[biss03]

+100000000000000 to Mr. Bond's response.

[pimij]

Being a Canadian - living closer to New York than most of you. I was shocked and dismayed by what happened on september 11th. It was a unforgivable act - by anyone - period.

Now opinion is just that - a personal feeling. And it is important too keep that perspective when talking about politics - everyone has thier own background and comes to thier own conclusions. That being said - I am disappointed in the war that has been waged - I won't argue that Saddam was a vicous man that had to removed - that was obvoius. But war of any kind is not pretty and often kills more regular people than anyone else. It also destroys communities. As hard as it is to believe, these people live like us - they have children and they work to better thier lives.

My opinion is this - unless you have personally gone to any of these contries - talked to the people - see how they live - live like they live - then and only then are you able to say your opinion. Basing your opinion on the slant that the media provides is not a good idea. They only show you what they want you to see.

Now before anyone jumps on me for this - this goes both ways - many people from other countries have strong opinions of what 'americans' or 'canadians' are and again - unless you know us and have lived like us - you can't.

People are people no matter where they live - its governments and political agendas that make things difficult.

We have not - in our lifetime waged a war on our own soil - I am sure our opinion of such things would be different if it was our country and our landmarks and our cities being left to ruin by the ravages of war.

Like Scott said:

This is my opinoin,,,you are welcome to yours

[Harryman]

So far-so-good on staying respectful. Let's stay the course.

[gcode]

A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She lowered altitude and spotted a man in a boat, smoking a cigar, below. She shouted to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

 

The man consulted his portable GPS and Replied, "You're in a hot air balloon approximately 30 feet above a ground elevation of 2346 feet above sea level.. You are 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes north latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude."

 

She rolled her eyes and said, "You must be a Republican."

 

I am," replied the man. "How did you know?"

 

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and I'm still lost.. Frankly, you've not been much help to me."

 

The man smiled and responded, "You must be a Democrat."

 

"I am," replied the balloonist. "How did you know?"

 

"Well," said the man, taking a long, slow, satisfying puff on his cigar, "you don't know where you are or where you're going. You've risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise that you have no idea how to keep, and you expect ME to solve your problem. You're in EXACTLY the same position you were in before we met, but somehow, now it's MY fault."

[Toolfab]

edit/

 

its just not worth it

 

edit/

[A-ron1286490684]

I have an uncle with whome I exchange political type e-mails with on a regular basis. He is a very left leaning individual and with him it seems to always come down to utopian type wishful thinking and anti-American sentiment every single time. As of late I’m also seeing the same anti-Bush rhetoric being parrotted by him that I read at websites like Moveon.org and the like. He claims we are less secure now than before? He had no response when confronted by the fact that the previous administration sold China missle guidance technology and shortly after that North Korea had a successful missle launch in ’95 that flew directly over Hawaii and fell somewhere in the Alaskan wilderness. Are these two events related? Doesn’t matter to him it was his guy in office. Where could North Korea land one today 9 years later? Probably right in downtown S.F.. Did it matter that Madalin Allbright was over there dancing with Kim Jong Il while millions were starving right outside the building? Of course not.

 

I don’t agree with Bush on all issues but have no problem celebrating the fact that we liberated 25 million people and have established a military presence between Syria and Iran. And a third, Libya has obviously been watching with great interest judging from their recent actions. I can tell you from listening and reading the opinions from the left that had Clinton or Kerry initiated this pre-emptive stance they would have no problem with it and would be trumpeting the humanitarian value as loud as they could.

[A-ron1286490684]

I have to seriously question the objectivity of anything coming from Mrs. Kelly Jack. With statements like this, “The role of the US and its client state, Israel, as occupiers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine evokes rage and retaliation.” She is justifying the actions of uncivilized medieval xxxx while marginalizing the role Israel plays as the ONLY democratically elected, non-dictatorship, non-totalitarian state in the whole region. So many miss this point about Israel. Yes we give them a billion dollars a year and if we didn’t they would be overrun and slaughtered simply because of anti-Zionist bloodthirsty savages in the name of religion. Correct me if I’m wrong but the majority of people in the world, (including the impotent blue hats), are beyond this mindset this day in age aren’t they?

 

By the way most of the anti-war demonstrations, (that seem to only occur during Republican military action), including the one on Saturday in S.F., are organized by the American Communist Party. A little fact the press never wants to connect the dots on.

 

If anyone would like to read more here is a great site that exposes the lies, aversion to logic, and distortions on a regular basis…

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read...le.asp?ID=12670

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=12644

[Jack Mitchell]

Not that I am avoiding this issue, but I am still formulating my own opinions on this topic as well.

 

I will follow Aaron’s links sometime tomorrow in all fairness. I read Kelly's article and found it rather informative, oddly enough I don't even know what it was she did at Fort Benning.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Chris Rizzo]

I gotta tell ya, one fact that is down-right troubling...

 

In the hours, days, weeks, and months following 9-11, their was an overwhelming GLOBAL outpouring of sympathy and support for the United States in our immeasuable crisis...our military actions against Afganistan and pursuit of Al-Quada were whole-heartedly supported and undeniably justified by the the civilized world.

 

Less than a year later, our same global allies now irrefutably hate us, and have undeniably expressed disagreement with actions of the U.S. What kind of foreign policy is that? That kind of alienations and resentment is causing terrorists to breed like maggots.........

 

Somewhere in Texas a village is missing an idiot.

[Harryman]

Please note what is happening in the news today.

 

George Bush is being simultaneously critisized for not acting to prevent 9-11, and acting without sufficient evidence in Iraq.

[CNCGUY]

quote:

---

George Bush is being simultaneously critisized for not acting to prevent 9-11, and acting without sufficient evidence in Iraq

---

Go figure - Damned if you do and damned it if you dont.

[gcode]

quote:

---

Less than a year later, our same global allies now irrefutably hate us,

---

The Oil for Food scandal is just starting to come to light. Our allies, including all EU nations,

powerful British politicians and arms companies all over Europe were reaping billions in under the table profits. This money was suppossed to be feeding the Iraqi people, insteading it was lining the pockets of the European elite.

This scandal will lead all the way to the very top of the UN.

Bush as cost corrupt EU and UN official billions.

Its only natural that they hate us. When the truth

of thier activities come to light, head will start to roll.

They are hoping the American people will replace the Bush Administration with one that's more

compliant and cooperative.

[Bullines]

quote:

---

They are hoping the American people will replace the Bush Administration with one that's more

compliant and cooperative.

---

That reminds me of the cover of Maclean's a couple of months ago. The cover featured a headshot of Bush with the heading "Hope You Lose, Eh". The next month, many Americans wrote in with plenty of "we don't care what Canada or anybody else thinks"-type of letters to the editor. A handful of Americans agreed with the article, my better-half included. Thoughts from those south of the border?

 

For those who missed it, this was the cover:

 

[gcode]

quote:

---

The next month, many Americans wrote in with plenty of "we don't care what Canada or anybody else thinks"-

---

Many Americans will vote for Bush just because

so many foriegn nations are against him

ie.. If the French hate him so much he must be doing something right

[A-ron1286490684]

Could someone explain to me why the AP's byline today was "Hamaas Vows Revenge" rather than "Surgical Israeli Strike Kills Terrorist Leader"? It's obvious who are the darlings of the Hollywood idiots, the press, and the special interests groups -come on now.

 

I don't know if anyone in here happened to see the hatchet job CBS tried to do on our president this weekend with the Richard Clark story but it seems every time the left tries to exploit some "so called" insider it just shines the spotlight towards there own inadequacies when it comes to the same issues. Richard Clark claims that Bush has been overly obsessive with Iraq while ignoring the Al Qeada threat. Then there were rumblings about the judgment of the administration when it came to leaving Clark out of the loop. CBS also failed to mention that Richard Clark was a hold over from the previous administration. Now with this little factoid it would be fair to examine these baseless charges in a whole new light would it not?

 

When the embassies were bombed did Richard Clark recommend to Clinton an attack on Al Qeada?

 

When the barracks were bombed did Richard Clark recommend an attack on Al Qeada?

 

When the World Trade Center was bombed in '93 did Richard Clark scream at Clinton and DEMAND we respond to this very real threat?

 

When the USS Cole was bombed did Richard Clark INSIST that we act on Al Qeada?

 

 

When the Sudanese Govt offered up Bin Laden not one, or two, but three times, did Clark recommend we take them up on it?

 

And if he had where was the outrage at the previous administrations ineptness?

 

You see its as simple as this... the Democrats cannot be trusted when it comes to national security. Bush on the other hand has wiped out at least two thirds of the Al Qeada organization around the world. And every terrorist we know of in the world either had an apartment, a contact, or a mailing address in Baghdad -so how did Bush fail in any way to act on the threat of terrorism with Iraq? Lets take this a step futher and examine whose district Boston's Logan international airport fell into during 9/11. That's right good ole John F-ing Kerry -the Kennedy latch-on who spent years trying to convince every one he was Irish and Kennedy-esq, (cause the new generation of Kennedy's were busy raping, dying while skiing drunk, and beating little girls to death with golf clubs.) And FBI reports stated that six of the hijackers were flagged as high risk passengers but since Norm Mineta and Al gore teamed up to abolish the "prejudiced" practice of racial profiling at the airports we were lucky enough to make sure we didn't hurt any terrorists feelings! That’s what it's all about right, feel good legislation?

 

quote:

---

Less than a year later, our same global allies now irrefutably hate us, and have undeniably expressed disagreement with actions of the U.S.

---

-Because we are the only superpower with the balls to confront these scum. And these other whiners have enjoyed decades of security by simply being on the side of the country with the willpower and balls to act. Then they step back and point a finger at us big bad bullies when a little bit of political friction arrives due to the gutless nature of the current European mindset.

 

Who needs tough solutions and logic when it comes to electing representatives in our Democracy? Lets just bury our heads like Spain huh? That’ll fix the problem.

 

I was also amused when they tried to distort Bush's military record and the guy who claims he never saw Bush there at the National Guard base has to recant and come up with a cheesy Alzheimer’s excuse while the pictures of Kerry in front of the N. Vietnamese flag and with Hanoi Jane circulated the other stations.

 

Baseless lies!

 

[ 03-23-2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: A-ron ]

[CPeast]

quote:

---

George Bush is being simultaneously critisized for not acting to prevent 9-11, and acting without sufficient evidence in Iraq.

---

OK Harryman ... lets not start getting logical and reasonable now.

[Brendan P]

+1 A-ron

You do your homework.

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

---

George Bush is being simultaneously critisized for not acting to prevent 9-11, and acting without sufficient evidence in Iraq.

---

That's because they are two DIFFERENT issues. Folks seem to lump all foreign enemies (Sadamm,Al-Queda) into into a single "terrorist" heading. Has their been a substantial link between Iraq and 9-11?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Something else that bothers me tremendously about the "Clark" book and the 60 minutes Hatchet Job on the President. The company that Publishes Clark's Book is Simon and Schuster - which is owned by .... Viacom, CBS is owned by... yep, you guessed it, Viacom. So it would not be a far stretch to say that CBS had a vested interest in Clark's book doing well. Can anyone say "Conflict of Interest"??? If a Conservative were to be caught doing the very same thing, OMG, hell hath no fury like a liberal scorned!

 

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination saying that this administration is perfect. Not by a long shot. There are some things that, looking back (convenient how we can do that isn't it), perhaps we could have paid more attention to some of the chatter that was heard. Problem is though our "Intelligence" is being bombarded. There is so much information coming in that there really is not an effective way to handle the flood so as a result, some stuff is missed. Unfortunately when we miss, people die. :sad: Perhaps our friends in the Computer Industry could create a better system to parsing the incoming data. Train the FBI/CIA, etc... better to log the data.

 

And another thing, these Islamic Savages that cannot read should not even be allowed to have opinions. They are seeing the world through their Mullah's eyes. Those are the people who should be wiped from the face of the earth - the Mullahs. The world would seriously be a better place without them.

 

JM2C

[Harryman]

quote:

---

two DIFFERENT issues

---

I'm well able to distinguish between the two. My point is that whether Bush is pro-active or re-active, criticism is constant.

 

I just wish the critics would pick a side and stay with it.

[Ripper3785]

quote:

---

He had no response when confronted by the fact that the previous administration sold China missle guidance technology and shortly after that North Korea had a successful missle launch in ’95 that flew directly over Hawaii and fell somewhere in the Alaskan wilderness.

---

EH? Show me this information anywhere on the web besides you just posting it. A missile, flies over hawaii, and then takes a near 180 degree turn and goes north and lands in the alaska wilderness? I live in hawaii and have since the early 80's.. I think I would remember something like this, heck, it'd have been national news anyway. So I'm calling "misinformation" on this one. I could be wrong, it has been known to happen before.

 

Not that I'm some Clinton supporter, I am certainly not, but I'm a stickler for truthful facts.

 

No offense is intended, I understand the overall jist of your post, like I said, I just have a thing for the truth.

[A-ron1286490684]

Rumsfeld's War: The Untold Story of America's Anti-Terrorist Commander -by Rowan Scarborough is where I found this "event" described Ripper. I know this doesn't guarantee it's factual but...

 

EDIT: I found two links describing this event on the web also. It was actually off the Alaskan coast where the dummy warhead was found and after re-reading my initial post I rememberd reading Hawaii but maybe I remembered wrong as the articles I dug up on the web mention it first going over Japan. I also know missle trajectories often include an equatorial trip for a slingshot effect using the earths rotation so...

 

But Hawaii would EASILY be in the range of the Pyongyang missle by all acounts.

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3600d6a82d5b.htm

http://www.gamersnook.com/blog/archives/000966.html

 

And it is a known fact that Loral and the Clintongs teamed up to slip missle guidance technology to the communist Chinese -probably the quid pro quo for the Buddhist temple fund raising or Charlie Wongs very suspect illegal campaign contributions I'd venture to say.

 

And for the record I will never post B.S.. If anyone doubts anything I've posted as the truth then set about proving me wrong and I will graciously remove the size thirteen double E Redwing boot from my piehole.

 

Respectfully,

Aaron

 

[ 03-23-2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: A-ron ]

[Ripper3785]

I don't doubt they would send one into the AK wilderness. And I am aware that their missles could reach hawaii or the west coast. But I don't believe one has actually come this way yet. but I don't think the missles have the reach to swing all the way down to us and either turn back or slingshot around the equator back to AK. If they had that kind of fuel they could probably reach anywhere in the continental us. I don't think they are there yet.

 

 

They probably know that if they sent one this way that they wouldn't even get to enjoy seeing what happened because the us nuclear subs off korea would turn n. korea into a wasteland before it reached here.. if not then probably shortly thereafter.. I would definitely be though!

 

Wasn't denying the missile guidance stuff to china.. and I can tell you wouldn't post bs..