Any reason in 5 axis to have a WCS other than TOP?

[medaq]

Like the title says.  I am having an issue within CAMPLETE rotating my C axis 90 degrees from what is shown inside of mastercam. I personally have never needed a WCS other than TOP, to get any result I needed. I am going back and fourth with (Gag) Autodesk. He is telling me something, which I tried and it still is not correct. Even asked him to change my mastercam file and send it to me to try out. Which posts the program correct, but the c axis is turned 45 degrees from what is needed. So I am asking the ones who are more fluent in 5 axis. Do you ever need a WCS plane other than TOP?

[Colin Gilchrist]

Code is "rotated" or "models are rotated"?

I've only used Top, but had situations where I then needed to shift and/or rotate my models (done inside CAMplete typically, or I output new STL Models from Mastercam, by manipulating the model or plane, before export). That said, I would often have parts with 1 WCS, and dozens of T/C Planes.

Are you using the CAMplete Utility to output your "setup" with all the models from inside Mastercam? Once you've got your template files dialed in, and understand how to setup the GUI for the CAMplete Export, the process was seconds to export all the data for an entire setup, and launch CAMplete with that setup in the proper location on the machine table.

[medaq]

The code is rotated. It will probably make a good part. But I am stubborn, and what I see in Mastercam should be what I see in the camplete imho. I have a rectangle part. It enter the machine on a vice rotated at 45 degrees. this is mainly due to matsuura mam72-35v pallet holes, and using a 5th axis base plate bolted to the pallet. So it starts at 45 degrees on C0. So I made a plane to rotate my c axis to correctly align the part. The part is lengthwise in the X axis inside of Mastercam. When posted thru Camplete it is showing lengthwise in the Y axis. I tried a postablity post for our mx520 and it posts correctly in the X axis. 

[medaq]

Autodesk guy, said this is an ok solution.

[Bob W.]

I would guess it is post dependent but I use whatever is convenient.  As long as all of the indexing planes share the same origin as the main WCS it shouldn't matter.  Top is the easiest and I prefer that because it makes exporting stock models and STEP files to Vericut easier but it doesn't need to be that way.  If I program a part to run 4-axis and decide later that 5-axis would be more efficient, I just create the appropriate setup, operations, and planes and go.

[crazy^millman]

Get a hold of Ivan if that is not who are you working with at CAMplete. James is also a huge help in situations like this. Yes what you see in Mastercam should match exactly what you see in CAMplete the fact doesn't is odd.

No reason the WCS cannot be anywhere you want it to be. Older versions it was a problem, but today the only problem would be axis limits don't respect the WCS and use World so if you try using them in anything other that top revert to line and conical limits when programming in a WCS not aligned with TOP. 

[JB7280]

3 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Get a hold of Ivan if that is not who are you working with at CAMplete. 

How does that work now?  I had worked with Ivan before, but I wasn't sure if you could still contact him through Campletez or if you had to contact Autodesk now?

 

[cncappsjames]

There were a few things in play in this situation.

1)  The program was "looked at" or "programmed" from the perspective of it going on an A/C kinematic machine. A certain feature in an A/C machine was expected to run parallel with the X-Axis. Since the part was going on a B/C machine the feature now runs parallel with the Y-Axis. Because CAMplete "can" offer up Tilt/Rotary solutions that do not necessarily represent what you see in back plot or verify because of the tilt preference settings in the CAMplete NC Format it can be a little unnerving.

2) There is a Mastercam File I/O setting in CAMplete that will honor the imported plane matrix (Thanks for the suggestion Ron. BTW on this back when we were working on that turn-key in Santa Fe Springs, you were the driving force behind forcing CAMplete to honor the tilt/rotary matrix). This setting is "NCI – Read The Rotary Axis Angle From The Tool View Matrix =..."

In order to give him the expected orientation he would need to set it to -2. Here are the options above.

In reality, there is one axis that matters; Z. Make sure the Z-Axis is pointed in the right direction and CAMplete can take care of the rest. I've been trusting it since 2006.

5 hours ago, JB7280 said:

How does that work now?  I had worked with Ivan before, but I wasn't sure if you could still contact him through Campletez or if you had to contact Autodesk now?

For the time being, everything support related still goes through [email protected] No word on when/if that will change.

 

BTW, I never move part CAD models anymore. I leave it where it is and create a base WCS to suit with no issues.

[crazy^millman]

6 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

There were a few things in play in this situation.

1)  The program was "looked at" or "programmed" from the perspective of it going on an A/C kinematic machine. A certain feature in an A/C machine was expected to run parallel with the X-Axis. Since the part was going on a B/C machine the feature now runs parallel with the Y-Axis. Because CAMplete "can" offer up Tilt/Rotary solutions that do not necessarily represent what you see in back plot or verify because of the tilt preference settings in the CAMplete NC Format it can be a little unnerving.

2) There is a Mastercam File I/O setting in CAMplete that will honor the imported plane matrix (Thanks for the suggestion Ron. BTW on this back when we were working on that turn-key in Santa Fe Springs, you were the driving force behind forcing CAMplete to honor the tilt/rotary matrix). This setting is "NCI – Read The Rotary Axis Angle From The Tool View Matrix =..."

In order to give him the expected orientation he would need to set it to -2. Here are the options above.

In reality, there is one axis that matters; Z. Make sure the Z-Axis is pointed in the right direction and CAMplete can take care of the rest. I've been trusting it since 2006.

For the time being, everything support related still goes through [email protected] No word on when/if that will change.

 

BTW, I never move part CAD models anymore. I leave it where it is and create a base WCS to suit with no issues.

Thank you for posting that up. I thought we had this conversation some years ago and forgot about pushing for this. Things we do in the background to make software better majority of people never know about.

[cncappsjames]

18 hours ago, medaq said:

Autodesk guy, said this is an ok solution.

Just quoting this for posterity.

[medaq]

19 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Get a hold of Ivan if that is not who are you working with at CAMplete. James is also a huge help in situations like this. Yes what you see in Mastercam should match exactly what you see in CAMplete the fact doesn't is odd.

No reason the WCS cannot be anywhere you want it to be. Older versions it was a problem, but today the only problem would be axis limits don't respect the WCS and use World so if you try using them in anything other that top revert to line and conical limits when programming in a WCS not aligned with TOP. 

I originally did try and use [email protected] and was told by that emails to use the Autodesk technical support. And there is where the source of frustration starts. I am not a fan of Autodesk, and never will be. They were takin a day at a time to respond. James is also a huge resource, I can not state that enough. James has gone beyond the call of duty in helping us get our mx-520 rolling, and now the mam72-35v. On Instagram messenger James did tell me to try the -2 for that option. And yes, this is working correctly right now. My concern and why I asked Autodesk. I was concerned this would of changed the behavior of the mx520 also, by changing this global option. I just did test a known program from the mx520, and the behavior worked as expected. 

 

I can really hope Autodesk can never acquire Mastercam

 

 

[crazy^millman]

6 minutes ago, medaq said:

I originally did try and use [email protected] and was told by that emails to use the Autodesk technical support. And there is where the source of frustration starts. I am not a fan of Autodesk, and never will be. They were takin a day at a time to respond. James is also a huge resource, I can not state that enough. James has gone beyond the call of duty in helping us get our mx-520 rolling, and now the mam72-35v. On Instagram messenger James did tell me to try the -2 for that option. And yes, this is working correctly right now. My concern and why I asked Autodesk. I was concerned this would of changed the behavior of the mx520 also, by changing this global option. I just did test a known program from the mx520, and the behavior worked as expected. 

 

I can really hope Autodesk can never acquire Mastercam

Yes James knows CAMplete extremely well why I asked for his his help on this topic.

Sandvik bought Mastercam and unless Autodesk Plans on buying Sandvik Mastercam will be staying where it is for some time to come. 

[Leon82]

No, use support@Camplete

 The Autodesk will add a few hours to the response time

[medaq]

6 minutes ago, Leon82 said:

No, use support@Camplete

 The Autodesk will add a few hours to the response time

I did try this originally. I got an email response stating I had to use auto desk technical support.

[cncappsjames]

That's odd (telling you to use AD instead). I just sent an e-mail this morning with no such reply. You DO get an auto response though.

You talking about this;

To receive technical support for Autodesk CAMplete products, please reach out to our support team by creating a support case from your Autodesk account.

 

Below is a link to instructions on how to create a support case.

 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-create-a-Technical-Support-case-for-Autodesk-software.html 

 

Thank you for your cooperation and we look forward to hearing from you!

34 minutes ago, medaq said:

I got an email response stating I had to use auto desk technical support.

That is merely a suggestion... I think anyway. AD has no online forum that I am aware of like they do for Fusion360 and their other products. Typically they let me know about the groundbreaking stuff ahead of time so I'll let you know if anything changes.

1 hour ago, medaq said:

I originally did try and use [email protected] and was told by that emails to use the Autodesk technical support. And there is where the source of frustration starts. I am not a fan of Autodesk, and never will be. They were takin a day at a time to respond. James is also a huge resource, I can not state that enough. James has gone beyond the call of duty in helping us get our mx-520 rolling, and now the mam72-35v. On Instagram messenger James did tell me to try the -2 for that option. And yes, this is working correctly right now. 

Thanks for the kind words.

[cncappsjames]

20 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Get a hold of Ivan if that is not who are you working with at CAMplete.

Ivan's knowledge and expertise is top notch. Always helpful. Always kind. NEVER rude.

[Leon82]

Make sure your export wcs is right. In the utility you can set it to work or current

[medaq]

1 hour ago, cncappsjames said:

That is merely a suggestion... I think anyway. AD has no online forum that I am aware of like they do for Fusion360 and their other products. Typically they let me know about the groundbreaking stuff ahead of time so I'll let you know if anything changes.

 

[crazy^millman]

8 minutes ago, medaq said:

 

People wonder why Autodesk has such a bad name in Manufacturing. Prime example of poor customer service. Too bust wearing skinny jeans and drinking the 27 different flavored espresso.

[cncappsjames]

23 minutes ago, medaq said:

 

Thanks. I just sent something to my contacts. We shall see what the reply is.

[Leon82]

Maybe it's a new policy I haven't  emailed them in a few months

[crazy^millman]

If I have to email or call a Yellow Coat for a Mastercam question then we will have a serious problem on our hands.

[cncappsjames]

As always, my guys come through.... it is indeed a new thing but it's going to be a gradual transition. New like within a few days.

 

Nothing official has been set at the moment, but they will be slowly transitioning customers who are on subscription to contact Autodesk support.

If a customer contacts them through [email protected] and they see they are on subscription, they will be directed to create a support case from their Autodesk account.

It’s still fairly new and they haven’t made any announcements about it just yet.

 

Once maintenance on all existing USB keys has expired, Autodesk support will be the primary portal for CAMplete support. CAMplete's current support staff ARE tagged to recieve support inquiries through their portal AS LONG AS CAMplete TruePath or CAMplete TurnMill products are selected as opposed to a general support inquiry. 

 

This should not be taken as official news, I'm just relaying information to hopefully help ease the transition and make sure the particulars for getting effective support are known. Look for an official announcement soon that should contain further, more useful details.

Hope this helps.

In short continue to use [email protected] unless directed otherwise.

[PAnderson]

You can also contact Ivan directly at Ivan Mikesic <[email protected]>. I don't think this is instead of [email protected] but in a pinch. Also, write Ivan and ask him what the best way to get hold of him would be.

 

Paul

[TheePres]

Two Doosan DVF 8000 being installed now, comes with Camplete. Fun times ahead.