An email from QC this morning

[cadcam]

Ok Ron following DWSZ71 you have to wait till I test it before you install.

[crazy^millman]

Yeah Jay sure thing. I want it perfect damn-it or I am telling my MOM.

 

I am a Beta tester still and I point out problems on what is going to be released in next coming months. I understand you want perfect code I do too but still goes back to the if you alot of people did not have X now it would be the crookes at Mastercam how dare they take our Maintence money and still not deliver X.

 

 

I will ask this of those that did not keep maintainence and got X and are getting service packs for free? Did you get what they said you would? Did they deliver X and do they not have a MR system in place for those who kept Maintainece that is going to offer so much more above X?(This one I can answer yes I am testing it right now)

 

 

Did they xxxx people off? Yes

 

Was it some Master plan to do so? NOOOOO Look to the above statement.

 

Do they have a windows based system now? YES

 

Are they going to make every user happy? Never in a million years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dwsz71]

quote:

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Ok Ron following DWSZ71 you have to wait till I test it before you install

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Ok, wait, let me go back and read where it says, "WAIT FOR YOUR RESELLERS APPROVAL BEFORE UPDATING, OR ELSE...".

 

Hmmm, I can't find it. Oh, wait, that's because I didn't... did I?

 

Let's clear a couple of things up, before any more people with over active imaginations, start cracking their knuckles with the intention of making themselves appear witty;

 

I have not said and will not say:

 

a. the beta testers dropped the ball on this one

b. the beta testers and resellers are ultimately responsible for the software that is released by CNC Software

c. Every piece of code released should be perfect

 

I have said and will continue to say:

 

a. In house testing any software patch or update before deploying is good practice for any company large or small

b. Thanks to Mark, DavidB and Thad who saved me and probably many other forum members the headache, as minor as it may be, associated with this update

c. A Mastercam reseller should be able to give honest insite to blatent problems, such as this one, with a simple telephone call or email.

d. I find it unlikely that this particular patch made it out for testing.

 

Thank you.

[Bullines]

quote:

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d. I find it unlikely that this particular patch made it out for testing.

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There was no beta for Update 2 made available to testers and resellers. Just thought I should mention that.

[robertf]

And I would have thought that mastercam might have tested it, Just a thought,

[Greg Williams]

quote:

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When I took my first basic programming class I learned that the 'off-by-one' scenario was the most common programming error in any code that involves counting loops, etc.

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Very true.

 

I would rather have an "Of-by-one" scenario that a dreaded endless loop

[MCam Newbie]

Hi, everybody! Haven't posted in a while, but this thread prompts me to speak out against what I perceive to be an injustice.

I am coming up on 52 years old. Most of what I know well I learned through doing it "less than optimaly" the 1st time through. It is human, it is part of living. I find many errors I make now are oversights in routine functions that I know well, have applied a thousand times, and scan over without seeing. An error in an area not being scrutinizing for a flaw will get by any one of us from time-to-time.

Cut the guys writing the code some slack. To me, what they do is quite amazing. MasterCam is one hell of a complex piece of software, and what's been done to reach X from 9.1 is so major an undertaking there are certain to be areas that will need "fixing".

The software is so versatile, and continually evolving with the industry, how can absolute perfection ever seriously be expected, much less demanded, of leading edge software.

This thread seems to put emphasis on a minor problem, with the major issues overlooked by most.

It seems some serious flaws were corrected, and a minor error introduced that doesn't really cause a problem, once one is aware of it. (Like the 1st time code is posted. Like noticing, "Wow, that's not right" "Oh, it just has the text misplaced. Code is fine. Need to report this next chance I get", and let the shop people know what's up, and that it is temporary.)

Imagine the hours these guys stared at a monitor over the last year or so, working on X, chalk it up to tired eyes, shake your' head and smile maybe. Remember the last time you worked past exhaustion. Did you maybe slip to a "little less than optimal" performance level? Maybe needed a few edits at the machine?

Sure, point out any flaws we can find, so they get the attention needed to resolve them, make other users aware of problem areas to benifit the MasterCam community.

Lastly, we should all give credit to the software guys, just look at all that IS RIGHT with MasterCam, the relatively minor flaws get fixed nearly as soon as discovered. They surely do not deserve all the disrespect doled out in these 3 pages, postings of frustrated disertation, after acomplishing such a feat as creating MasterCam X. They have created for us this marvelous tool, maybe not perfect, but close, very very close!

Let's back up and give loud KUDOS all around to these dedicated people, and respectfully point out problems we need addressed, and they no doubt will be taken care of.

Thanks for the vent space. I hope I have swayed some people from such a hard-line attack mode relative to our softwares' creators. They're the "good guys", remember?

[Steve Zirtzman]

Everyone,

Let’s get back to the problem at hand. I was bit by this one too. Received the email late Wednesday before going home, so went ahead and ran the update. I removed my hasp before installing, just to be safe, and did not lose the connection. Came in on Friday to work on a hot job and discovered the problem right away. I did not take the time to document what exactly was wrong, but for me it looked like more than the Comments off by one, there were Tool names missing also. Found a computer with only the original SP#1 installed, then I replaced mcamxappsmp.dll and mcamxMCPost.dll with their older versions. I posted a couple more programs that day and everything seemed to work fine. Please let me know if you need these files.

[cadcam]

quote:

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Ok Ron following DWSZ71 you have to wait till I test it before you install

 

Ok, wait, let me go back and read where it says, "WAIT FOR YOUR RESELLERS APPROVAL BEFORE UPDATING, OR ELSE...".

 

Hmmm, I can't find it. Oh, wait, that's because I didn't... did I?

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You didn’t. OK and I did not state or ELSE now did I.

You did make the statment

quote:

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Hey, here's an idea, I nominate your reseller as a volunteer guinea pig. Hell, I'll even nominate mine.

 

If you're that concerned, just call your resller before updating and ask them if they have installed it. They should have the resources do the testing that their clients may not. And if they give you the green light

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That is what you said and that says wait for the dealer first.

 

And by the way not all dealers just have a bunch of computers lying around to test with, and the time. But we all try are best to test and find out how things are going to work.

Some time’s it can be the Hardware so it will work fine on all 7 of my computers with different hardware then the next guy has some thing different.

It is very frustrating to me to when a customer calls says they are having this problem and I try it and it works fine. So I do not have an answer. But I for sure try and even ask for there file.

 

Let me ask are you saying that if I find a problem that I should email or call every customer using MC-X being over a 1,000 and tell them I found some thing?

 

I my self try to see allot of the time if I find the same issue and for sure share it with my customers if they call about an issue.

 

This Forum is a help as I can not all by myself test all issues.

 

So I have to say if I took some thing wrong from your statement I am sorry but I still don't see it other wise.

[crazy^millman]

Also Jay handle the area I am in so he can speak directly to me nad I can take is for what it was humor.

[dwsz71]

Ok Jay, I'm glad your Mastercam skills exceed your interpretation skills.

 

Here we go, again...

 

I merely suggested that those users that are so concerned about installing updates contact their dealer for a heads up on whether or not the dealer has installed the update and has or has not noticed any significant problems. The dealers should have it loaded for trouble shooting anyway, but I'll touch more on this later.

 

Let's pretend I'm uneasy about installing an update, because I've been running MS Windows for the last 10 years, and have a pretty good idea that sometimes updates aren't always as good as they are intended to be. If I called my reseller and asked them if they had installed this update, and they said yes, and then I asked them if they had noticed any problems, and they said no, I might feel confident enough to install the update myself.

 

(Note: I am not comparing CNC Software, or their representatives, to Microsoft, if you think that I am please re-read the previous paragraph before commenting.)

 

Now let's just say the dealer told a little white lie in saying they had installed this latest update, because they were too busy, or DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS COMING, or whatever. And I'm posting code noticing, (AS ELUSIVE AS THEY ARE), every (TOOL COMMENT) is out of sink by one tool change. Who do I get pissy with, the dealer who told me "everything looks hunky dorey"? Or users like CamCam10, who acknowledge that programmers make mistakes, and while this mistake is annoying, it's also fairly harmless (with the exception of Mark's slight heart attack while drilling with his "Face Mill").

 

Nowhere in my comments did I say users must wait for the resellers to install the updates before they can. I did suggest however those who wanted to, could.

 

Let's take into consideration the folks who were looking forward to the intended fixes in this update. To them it may be worth the hassle of adding/moving comments around.

 

I, on the other hand, didn't spend weeks modifying posts just to now have to edit because of a loop count error. IMO, that blows.

 

As Bullines already pointed out (and with all the beta testers chiming in on this thread, thanks for the list Terry, curious he was first) this patched never went out for beta. In my mind this is the same as a drawing being kicked out to manufacturing for production without being checked and released. It just shouldn't happen.

 

quote:

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And by the way not all dealers just have a bunch of computers lying around to test with, and the time

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I'm glad you brought that up, because the word resources, could mean one computer with the current system requirements for Mastercam and, and this is the kicker, patched with the "publicly available" updates. This means not having any betas of the next Update, Service Pack or Maintenance Release. It doesn't really help us when we call for support, and the problems can't be duplicated because the problem was a logged bug and fixed, or someone fixed it by accident, and a user hears "works ok here, but I'm running blah blah blah ".

 

As far as hardware problems go, it's right up there with "ok, I know what they fixed in the update, but what's now/still broken?". You don't know because the information is not published. There is no list of supported hardware, or drivers for that matter, to my knowledge. I do know that system configs are topics more frequently than should be on the board.

 

quote:

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Let me ask are you saying that if I find a problem that I should email or call every customer using MC-X being over a 1,000 and tell them I found some thing?

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Why wouldn't you? They're YOUR customers! YOUR bread and butter. These are the people that have no way to "START, CONTROL PANEL, ADD/REMOVE PROGRAMS, MASTERCAM X SP1 UPDATE 2, CHANGE/REMOVE, AUTOMATIC, NEXT, NEXT, FINISH, OK", when something like this happens. It sure would make you look good providing YOUR customer's with YOUR knowledge to aid them when making the choice to install it or not, wouldn't it.

 

And, so there is no confusion, when I say YOUR, I mean all the dealers not just YOU.

 

But hey man, I see your point, 1,000 customers, that's a lot of people. You must do pretty well. How could you, being only one man, get in touch with 1,000 of customers.

 

Oh wait, don't you host the FTP here. And you mean to tell me that you don't have access to a mail server? A web site? Here's an idea, post an article on your web site then email, via newsletter, your clients the link.

 

I fail to see how notifying your customer base is something to scoff at.

 

quote:

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This Forum is a help as I can not all by myself test all issues.

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Your absolutely right. I couldn't agree more. It's a great place to go where the majority of the time you can get a questioned answered, professionally, by some very talented people. I am about 3 months into to Mastercam and I frequent the board often.

 

But the forum topics are, sometimes, vague and congested with tons of other information. It's not like there is a thread that says "ATTENTION MCX USERS: CAUTION INSTALLING SP1 UPDATE 2".

 

The closest things are:

"An email from QC this morning" and "Update uninstall"

 

I'm not asking you to go about it "all by yourself". I am extending my opinion on what all of the dealers should be doing as a service to THEIR customers.

 

Again, it is only my opinion, and you know what they say about those.

 

Yes, it is an excellent year for Mastercam, and I'm proud to use X.

[dwsz71]

quote:

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Also Jay handle the area I am in so he can speak directly to me nad I can take is for what it was humor.

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DAMN DUDE! Drinking heavily today, or what?

 

j/k... hey I've got no problem with a joke, it's when people start taking my words out of context, that's when I get huffy. The ol' wibblie-wobblie-web leaves too much to interpretation for my liking.

 

Thanks...

[Bruce Caulley]

Well said Dave!

[cadcam]

Dave, you have some good thoughts and as for the Web stuff I am just about to start a new site for are customers and for my own buss to. I agree it does not hurt to have some of this there and updated.

 

Oh by the way I am not by myself we have 2 offices here in Cali.

 

quote:

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I'm glad you brought that up, because the word resources, could mean one computer with the current system requirements for Mastercam and, and this is the kicker, patched with the "publicly available" updates. This means not having any betas of the next Update, Service Pack or Maintenance Release. It doesn't really help us when we call for support, and the problems can't be duplicated because the problem was a logged bug and fixed, or someone fixed it by accident, and a user hears "works ok here, but I'm running blah blah blah ".

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I my self try and can not always get to see the issue. I am with you as I set this up and it does not work correctly then I can get my work done either.

 

But in this case I do run to installs now of MC-X one with the updated Beta per say and one with the latest the customers use so I can test the issue in both and let the customer know my findings.

 

Think we have gone far enough with this.

And I have a better understanding of what you want.

 

Feel free to contact me any time also if you think I may have tested or tried some thing.

 

quote:

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Ok Jay, I'm glad your Mastercam skills exceed your interpretation skills.

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Sorry you do not feel this way as I find them to work every day as I do tech support and have to understand what the customer needs and frustration are.

 

I am also an instructor for several schools in Mastercam and for are offices.

So I hope I have clue about Mastercam as I have been using it for over 15 years.

 

Now I hope the rest of you day goes well. I am looking to enjoy mine as well if I could get this Dame Micro scribe to work well.

 

quote:

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Again, it is only my opinion, and you know what they say about those.

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Yes but believe it or not yours does count so don't stop sharing.

[Guest]

OK, so all the rabble rousing aside.

 

What is the concensus on this update?

 

Hold off on it?

Go ahead with it, it's not major?

[Thad]

If you don't mind your tool comments being out of whack, I'd say do the update.

 

If the tool comments not being there/out of order is an issue for you, then don't update. It looks like 99% of the update is post issues. If you have done the update and copy the mp.dll and mcpost.dll back over from a non-updated system, then you have practically uninstalled the update, as far as I can see. So if you're going to do that, why bother installing it in the first place?

 

The update did delete the .ext files, but that's gone if you overwrite the files mentioned above.

 

Thad

[Hymen]

Cheers CamCam! I'm tired of the complaining as well. To much dam reading to find resolve to my own issues.

Been using 10 since it's release and haven't looked back! Milling 2D/3D and Mill/turning multi-spindle multi-turret. I take the good with the bad and do my best!

[P_Scott]

dwsz71,

 

I know your concerns Dave and I, like so many others, am here to help. Granted there should be some form of information testing and dispersal of resulting data via one convenient location for all to see. It's just not set up that way yet. Give it time and it probably will be. This forum is as close to that ideal presently as we are to see in the very near future. Please don't forget about the support network you have outside of this forum.

 

All,

 

To paraphrase Mcam Newbie "think about all that is good with the software and the accomplishment to bring it to the general user base". There will be issues. Let's face it. Not everyone has the same computer setup, even between resellers. Not everyone has the same experience. Almost no one does exactly the same thing with the software or wants identical output from anyone else. There's infinite variety in people and projects. Why would we want it any other way?

 

This tool comment or note issue simply illustrates something that's minor that affects a lot of users because it's a very basic item. What if you didn't want tool comments at all? Would it be as much of an issue? Produce a setup sheet and give that to the operators instead of having them read the actual code for information on the tools. If they're reading code on the machine after it's been sent, it's almost too late to fix things. If it's read by the programmer immediately after processing, it may be found or may not. It all depends on the programmer and circumstances related to other things that may be happening around them at the time. Even a great programmer will miss things at times if they are pressured to "get the job out". Simply replacing the updated files with old ones is a "band-aid" solution. Also uninstalling and re-installing the software to the point just before Update 2 is not much better. This will be fixed. It's only a matter of time. Hang in there everybody.

[ILv2Rk]

You go, CamCam

[Thad]

quote:

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You go, CamCam

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Yeah....and don't come back.

 

Thad

[?Mark]

CamCam who?

 

Mark

[Jeff2005]

I clicked the link and it doesn't work for me any ideas.

[?Mark]

What link?

Mark

[?Mark]

Oh you mean this?

 

Mark

[Jeff2005]

yes but everytime I click the update 2 it goes to a blank web page.