x interface

[HevyMetl]

Just remember little bugs are programmers ways of ensuring job security.

 

If you are going to let bugs get in the way of you using a software you will never use any of it. V9 was solid but it still had bugs, most of us knew about them and just worked around it, or they didnt affect us. Most of the bugs in X Mr1 have work around or won't affect you. C'mon just do it. Verify is solid, and if you are really concerned get a seat of Predator Editor and solid verify you g-code. It works very well for that for little cost.

[within a thou]

I am definitely goin to go to X just waiting for my boss to pony up to get some training. Just this is all new and sure being familiar with mcam from previous versions you know how the X should work for the most part its just a matter of finding whre it has been moved to. But what do ya do when it is a bug (I know questions here get answered in a mater of minutes but with that a side) How much time has been lost by people because of these bugs. So not only are ya gettin whammied that way you are also having to look for everything all over again and if its not there how do you know its not just somewhere else. And that is beore we get into the time everyone has spent customizing the interface setting up ribbon bars key strokes and so on. People here know how to remove steel they know how to create 3D models but with thing being overhauled so severly learning X would be no diferent then changing to a whole different software package if ya think about it. Just think its a bold and risky move to go this route for a upgrade would have preffered the time spent (in my opinion better) on improving areas that mcam is known for weaknesses in plotting, editing cutterpaths and so on.

 

And on buying the preditor software or any other verify or editing software why should one have to pay twice to do what I can already do in V9. once for McamX and again for the second application. And not only pay twice for the seats but pay twice to run the second application to double check the first application.

 

So if you think about what money is being put into mcamX so far

 

The cost of the seat

The cost from the learning curve of learning where everything is

The cost of maintenance to eliminate bugs

The cost of customizing ribbon bars menus and so on

This software is set up to excel with a spaceball so money once again

The cost of training for something I have been using for 8 years with out a problem

And the cost of downtime while leaning and setting this all up. and yo figure that against what your employer is charging per hour not necessarily to you but at a shop rate charged either against the job or added into the final price of what the customer is gonna pay for his tool.

 

The new GUI was supposed to speed up productivity after factoring in all the above costs then weighing it in against the time it took you to key stroke 3 menus deep to for example create fillet radius. When do you exspect to recoup the loses and actually post a profit above what you already would have done in V9?

 

This new GUI better be worth it cause it is costing us a fortune on something a lot of people will consider not much more then a new paint job. I look forward to the new toolpaths, I have seen what higher end cam softwares can do in 3D. But the rest I don;t understand who is actually getting ahead.

 

My .02 may seem like nonsense but lets really look at this and ask yourself these questions. And look at it from a owners prespective in dollars and cents. Sure its great to learn something new but the market is tough enough right now how can we justify the above exspenses?

[Guest]

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but the market is tough enough right now how can we justify the above exspenses?

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Ultimately it does not matter. You will spend something.

 

You will do 1 of 3 things, stay with V9 and in time fall behind the competition, pony up the time, training and effort for X or spend more $$$ on time, training and effort to learn something else.

 

JMNSHO

[within a thou]

There is a learning curve with anything. Its exspected but a total overhaul is a whole lot wider curve then improving the foundation of a good product and adding extra options. Has the menu on the left gotten deeper and deeper in mcam up to V9? of course it has to with new options. Right now the first menu is 10 options all assigned a letter of the alphabet for a hot key up that to 15 options and you still won;t have to press any more keys you just have to learn the new ones.

 

And John you are a very advanced mcam user, with factoring all the things I said earlier how much time do you think you have lost? Then consider a lowr level user and the time they must have lost its going to be greater the farther down the experience line you go.

[Dan_AKA_ROY]

I like X. I program in V9 still, though. I need to download the MR1/SP2 release, and since our download speed is slow at work - I'll need to find some time to do it. Not programming so much lately, I've been doing design work a lot more lately. Rhino and V9 does what I need. But I've played around with X and like the interface. It has frozen up at times "not able to undo a mistake, etc". But they'll eventually get that bug fixed. I just close the file and say 'no' when promted to save. I little annoying, but it doesn't happen too much - though I don't design too much with X yet.

 

In Rhino if you press 'Alt+S' the Surface menu opens up. When you press the 'alt' button - the top menus get a letter underlined...the Solid menu's 'o' gets underlined. Alt o opens up the solids menu, etc. I like that, wish MC would do that. Maybe later, huh? Use the 'Ctrl' button or something...

[Ed@Elite]

I think Mastercam did a nice job with the interface, although I agree with everyone here that more time should have been spent on, for instance, fixing trimming surfaces and filleting surfaces. But the new toolpaths in MR1 seem to be working GREAT!!! The rest milling seems to work good so far, so nice job there!!

The one thing that bugs me BADLY and all the people I work with, is that Mcam took away the hotkeys for Endpoint, Midpoint, Center, etc..

[Dan_AKA_ROY]

^ I hear that a lot "wished MC would fix 'trimming surfaces'"

 

I've never had any problems. And I've trimmed a lot of surfs! What problems are you having with trimming surfs? Sure, I've had some problems early on till I figured out what I was doing wrong - but that was years ago. Am I missing something? Perhaps only in certain instances MC has trouble? Hmmm...

[David from FN MFG.]

As far as MHO goes. I love the new interface. I may be a little "green" since i started on V9 (came over from surfcam). V9 was "layered" to much in my opinion. I can easily access anything with either a right click or a icon. I was fortunate to take training which help me familiarize myself with the icons and all the "new" stuff. By no means am i a veteran of the MC but it appears from a relatively new customer is is a GREAT improvement from V9. Just my 2-1/2cents worth.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I've been using the "Alt+..." method now and I'm as fast as I was in V9 and previous now. Took a bit to remember to not hold down the alt key but I'm getting it.

 

Concept, you may want to try that method. Put the same buttons you have/use in V9 up on X through the configuration. As fot the hotkeys for E, M, and C, this is where the Auto-Cursor takes over. We all had the opportunity to embrace or shun Auto-Cursor since V8. Those that shunned it are paying a heavy price now because they are forced to use it. Personally I've always liked it. I like it even more now, though I find I need to be zoomed in on my sutff more now because I can't just press E, M, or C, but like anything else, it's an adjustment.

 

The old interface was absolutely productive. No doubt about it. But it had reached (and probably exceeded) it's lifespan. New customers were turned off by the old interface, and I hate to say this but CNC is not really making any money off us old timers even with maintenance. They need new seats to be sold in order to develop all the things we want. Is it a bitter pill to swallow? Yeah, for some. By and large my opinion is they went the right way though. They gave me enough options in the configuration to make it how I like it and that is a VERY good thing because we are all different and we all work differently.

 

My hope is that you will get the training you need so that you can use X and soon be more productive than before.

 

HTH

[Guest]

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total overhaul is a whole lot wider curve then improving the foundation of a good product and adding extra options.

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When the market you are in is being encroached upon, heavily, you had better do something to stay ahead of the pack. NX is trying very hard to make an inroads into the medium size business market, then you have other big makers Pro-E/Pro-Man, you have Solid CAM, others that have gone feature based machining. There is a lot of competition in the CAM market. With new users it does not matter if it is the best thing since sliced bread, if it looks like sh*t compared to the next guys loaf, people will spend their money on the one that looks good. CNC changed the interface and largely left the functionality as it was. How things work really has not changed, where they are and how you get them has. If you have new users comping on board and they are windows savvy, I think they would pick this up rather quickly. The people having the hardest time are the old schoolers, there is nothing wrong with being old school but times change and you either change with them or they leave you behind.

 

quote:

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And John you are a very advanced mcam user, with factoring all the things I said earlier how much time do you think you have lost? Then consider a lowr level user and the time they must have lost its going to be greater the farther down the experience line you go.

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An advanced user? Sometimes I sure don't feel like it

 

I slowed down a bit as X was released, no doubt. However, I planned for it, I scheduled my workload as needed, I had a month of work programmed ahead of time so by the time I got thru that I was at about 85% - 90% of where I was in V9. I am faster now than I was in V9. I also either draw or model 95% of all my work in MC, though I am currently learning Solidworks. I took the initiative. I spent countless hours on my own, on the forum, on the weekend.

 

It can be done but people have to want to. I am not saying you are whining but it seems many people find it easier to whine than to put their heads down and get on with learning how to use the new tool. I don't think for a minute that all the fuss will ever bring back a 9 style interface. The tool is and will be improved about that there is little doubt.

 

Let me get off the soapbox now, I've already gone on too long.

[Ken Erman from CNC Software Inc.]

Hot keys for the chaining menu we added back in MR1.

 

Hot keys for the AutoCursor are coming back in MR2... along with some other cool stuff.

 

We made some mistakes and some assumptions and overlooked some things when we designed the X interface. Our Beta Sites warned us (flamed us sometimes ) about some things that we were not able to change right away, but all of this input is helping to continue to fine tune the interface.

 

More is coming in X MR2, X2, and beyond. We just have to balance the tweaks with the cool new stuff like the HST toolpaths and ########### ###### ### ########## the ######### and #### for #############!

[smokey_44]

"Hot keys for the chaining menu we added back in MR1. "

 

 

"Hot keys for the AutoCursor are coming back in MR2... along with some other cool stuff. "

 

 

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA thats the best news I have heard in a LOOOOOOOOONG time. That was one of my biggest pet peves with X .

 

 

Dave

[within a thou]

I love auto cursor use it all the time but is something gonna be done about the size of the font so we don;t have to mask certain options all the time when you have a tangent near a quadrant and you are looking for the intersection when its close you have to zoom in so much to make sure you have the right entity. Just lil things that make ya shake your head that eren;t a issue earlier.

 

I am not trying to come across a whining I just piped in like this cause I am sick as you X guys are at hearing "X sucks" mentality. I just don't think ridicule is a good technique to use in a debate. It closes ears.

 

quote:

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New customers were turned off by the old interface, and I hate to say this but CNC is not really making any money off us old timers even with maintenance.

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I may have some old time values like don't bite the hand that feds you and if it ain't broke don't fix it but come on james I am not even 30 yet I just started at this at a young age (17). Which is where my frustration is I started early to get ahead of the pack to exceed above others and X just levelled the playing field on me.

 

quote:

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An advanced user? Sometimes I sure don't feel like it

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John give yorself some credit I read your answers to people posts and integer questions and that comes across as chinese to me.

 

Do I know everything about V9? No but I can get whatever job my boss throws at me done. I know I just need to bite the bullet grab X by the horns and just do it but until I get that time away from my workload I can't justify the downtime. My boss bought X on day one have had maintenace ever since and I may have made 2 parts with it. Does he care which I use No all he cares is the work is done on time and he turns a profit. Do I care if I learn X Yes cause even though this company is secure and my position is secure here who knows where the future will lead me and last thing I want to do is go from ahead of the pack to far behind.

 

I look forward to learning X knowledge is power and I know just about enough to be somewhat dangerous Its just a matter of freeing up sometime. Everything I do is one off I am a tool maker my files get to me 20 mins before I am exspected to press start and half of them have to be redone before I can even think of starting to write a cutterpath a good engineer who understands what is needed with a surface file to be programmed to cut is like a unicorn in these parts of the woods. Ya have heard the myths but how many have ever seen one.

[Ed@Elite]

I have personally used the auto cursor since it was introduced and I love it. However, I guarantee that I could select things faster with hotkeys Endpoint, Midpoint, Center, etc.. In X you have to zoom up pretty close to make sure you don't select the wrong thing with autocursor, which takes a little extra time.

 

Like I said earlier, I think its a good step to go to X and the new interface, but since its a major change we just have to put up with the quirks since its new.

 

Glad to hear some of the hotkeys will be back in MR2!!!!

[gcode]

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I look forward to learning X knowledge is power and I know just about enough to be somewhat dangerous Its just a matter of freeing up sometime

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There is a way to learn X and still get your work done.

Get 90-95% of a job done in V9, then import into X and finish it. If you totaly choke, you can go back to V9 and finish it without wasting a lot of time and work.

When you start doing stuff in X from scratch, start easy. Do the part file in V9 and use X to do your fixture operations and drill tooling plates etc.

That's how I have done it as a beta site and it works pretty good.

[Jorgen]

When will MR2 be available?

[tooljockey]

In about 2 weeks from 2 weeks from tomorrow.

[Rick Curtis EastechInc.]

I don`T` know if it has been mentioned or not. If you tap on the alt key the one letter key strock functions will show which letter to press to get the command activated.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...I may have some old time values like don't bite the hand that feds you and if it ain't broke don't fix it but come on james I am not even 30 yet I just started at this at a young age (17)...

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In CAM years, if you've been doing it since Windows 3.1 and MS-DOS 6.x were the OS's out, you ARE an Old Timer.

 

It was broke in 1 respect, it was not able to "look modern". Plain and simple. Not making excuses, just stating a fact.

 

The current user base is not sufficient to continue development. They HAVE to sell NEW seats to continue. Develop or die. Just ask the hundreds of of CAM companies that have gone under over the years. Mastercam has been and remains #1 because they are developing the product. Maybe not as fast as we would like but development time is what it is. In order to do that they need a revenue stream, maintenance alone won't do it. X is not so different that I need to re-learn new software. The structure is essentially the same. From a CNC program generation standpoint, V8 to X is not as drastic as V6 to V7 was. I mean we went from TOTAL dependance on the NCI to most of us don't need it anymore.

 

JM2C

[Thad]

quote:

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In CAM years...

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James, what would that be in dog years?

 

Thad

[gcode]

quote:

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we went from TOTAL dependance on the NCI to most of us don't need it anymore

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Your average V9 user doesn't even know what an

NCI file is . I still use the NCIEdit chook once and a while, but not very often.

[cadcam]

That is very true Gcode and James.

how far back do you guys remeber playing with it?

(Mastercam that is)

[Thad]

quote:

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how far back do you guys remeber playing with it?

(Mastercam that is)

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Jay,

 

Don't you think that question is better suited for the OT forum? My mom said that if I kept doing that I would go blind. I told her I was just going to do it until I needed glasses.

 

Thad

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Definitely like 84 dog years.. ROFL!!!!!

 

EditNCI... poor man's Operation Manager. I cannot believe there are some people still using V6. Man..... :shakehead: Talk about handcuffs.... YIKES. I'd squeal if I had to go back to V8, I mean I could but without the WCS, I would not be a happy camper.

 

I started programming in Version 3.something. Early early 90's. It was on a 286 with like 1MB RAM.

 

LOL @ Jay!!!!

[gcode]

quote:

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how far back do you guys remeber playing with it?

(Mastercam that is

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My first Cad/Cam program was Anicam 1.0.

The computer had (2) 8in floppies. One for the EXE file and one for storage. No mouse , no hard drive and a 4 color monitor ( that was a HUGE upgrade).

When they upgraded to Anicam 2.0 and an IBM XT

with a mouse, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven.

My first Mastercam experience was V5 at Saddleback Community College. I bought my own copy as V7 was turning to V8