Wait codes again for Mill/Turn.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I've heard good things about part maker.

I worked in a shop with a Star SV32 that used it.

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

Ron I got through a couple boxes last night and did not find his name yet but I will I will finish tonight 3 boxes left I know I am a pack rat but you never know when you need info you have collected

[crazy^millman]

Yeah the guy pushed it out till Friday so we will see.

 

Thanks Rick appericate it.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

There's an AE at Methods here in SoCal that uses and likes it. He switches between the two (partmaker and esprit). He likes them both. They each have their "quirks" as he calls them but he can at least do load balancing graphically.

 

Just in case you at CNC are keping a tally, that would 18 seats of your competitor's software I've had to refer for Multi-Spindle/Multi-Turret Lathes in the last 12 months, and ALL would have went with Mastercam based on my reccommendation.

[crazy^millman]

Ok folks update to this thread and my Esprit demo. It went ok they guy was just a sales guy not an A.E. and had nothing done on the parts I had sent him. So he did some toolpaths on my part and from the little I could see the one toolpath that stood out was balanced cutting. It take the upper and lower turret into account when making a toolpath and using 2 tools. The tool library method, the operation manager, and the sync method is light years ahead of Mastercam. (Since Mastercam has never really cared about this anything is light years ahead of that.)He did however struggle with something I requested which is what I started this thread with, though I think if he would have let me I could have showed him how to do it with his own software. The sync method is mouse driven so if you have the chain for the toolpath on the screen you can click on the points sync points to each other and done.

 

The biggest and most important thing is simulation. Wow Wow and double wow is all I can say. X4 might be in the same league with the current release Espirt, but I doubt it with regards to simulation. Very nice and reminds me of Machine Sim, with making STL's from solids to drive the machine. Can change the solids and make new STL's just like Machine Sim. This is the best feature and in todays market the most important in my book.

 

To me look like something I could have doing most of what I want in a couple weeks with no problem. The toolpaths are pretty much the same on the turning side. He did not Demo the milling at all, but showed me some machines doing it and it simulated perfect granted those are staged demos.

 

I think it has limits just like other software, but how it handles the mill/turn sync, and simulation makes up for that over Mastercam. The posts for our machine are not standard just like they are not standard for Mastercam. YES I AM YELLING AND REPEATING THIS. THE ESPIRT POSTS FOR AN INTEGREX, 4AXIS OKUMA, AND QUICK TURN WITH Y AXIS MILLING AND SUB SPINDLE ARE NOT FREE THE SAME AS MASTERCAM. The post however look very easy to change and work with and are open just like Mastercam.

 

The posting of the file seemed cumbersome to me and the guy struggled with it some what. Mastercam has maybe 2 files I think they have 5 or 6 files for one post. Then you have to get the machines and controls for your CNC machine as well. They have over a 1000 machines already made so no having to create your own machine.

 

Now come the big one the price and time you add all the modules up, throw in some posts and well Mastercam is better here. I made 2 posts for our Mill/Turns using MPLMASTER saving a lot of money. They do have some basic posts to change, but nothing like MPGEN5AX or MPMASTER or MPLMASTER to change to use on a machine. Still waiting on final number, but 2 get what we would need to support our Integrex to our 4 axis Okuma lathe we have a lot more years of maintenance before I can justify the expense. If we were not a Mastercam shop, or a Level one shop and looking for something to program machine like this I would have to recommend Espirt. If you are a Mastercam shop with everything or multi seats like we are; going to be a hard sell to go to Espirt. Mastercam is very far behind with Simulation, and sync codes. My method of sync codes using Cantext is almost the same as what Espirt is doing. CNC if any of you are reading this. If Espirt thinks it is a good idea to control the turning toolpath at the points in the toolpath and use that as a way to sync the machine and one of your users develops it on their own maybe you should do something about it!!!!

 

If we had not just bought a 2nd seat of Mastercam in the last 6 months I would be doing everything in my power to talk the owner into getting Espirt. Seeing how we have a seat not being used going to be hard to talk him into getting something different. With that said I think X4 might be the next release we go to. We have 6 months worth of Maintenance left of one seat; if X3 is out by then the maybe they can change my mind, but so far the grumblings I am hearing are not looking good to do that.

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

Ron check your gmail

[GoetzInd]

Ron,

I did an online demo w/ partmaker yesterday and was very impressed. Not only did it handle the sync and waits very well but the overall programing seemed a lot simpler. Simulation was very impressive as well. I do have Esprit coming in thursday to do their demo and i'm looking forward to it. I have lost some faith in mastercam's ability to compete in the multi task arena within the next year. And this is to long for me to wait. It makes me sad because I really like mastercam for milling but i'm tired of punching my keybord everytime I program a mill/turn part.

 

Mike

[kazmir44]

We currently have 7 seats of mastercam. And the last thing I want to do is change to a different software. We are very successful in our lathe and mill programming. But our lathe/mill and 4 axis programming is just a P.I.T.A.

 

At least I know that I'm not alone.

 

I asked before, but I didn't get an answer. Is there a post for a 4 axis Okuma lathe available FOR PURCHASE, that supports wait codes?

 

I don't mean to take any credit away from you Ron.

I admire all that you have done. I'd just hate to have to start from scratch. I'm floating in the same boat that you once were. As are many others.

[Bob Hedrick]

Thanks for the information Ron. Believe it or not there is a team here that cares a lot about multi-task machining.

[Greg Williams]

quote:

---

I asked before, but I didn't get an answer. Is there a post for a 4 axis Okuma lathe available FOR PURCHASE, that supports wait codes?

---

Yes In-House have an MPLmaster-Okuma post for twin turret lathes

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...Believe it or not there is a team here that cares a lot about multi-task machining...

---

Sorry Bob, but it's REALLY hard to believe that. We have been hearing that very same phrase for the last 10 years - give or take a year. I wish CNC would jusy be honest for a change about the status instead of stringing us along this whole time. Right now CNC has ZERO credibility in this arena, and they've EARNED that.

[crazy^millman]

Bob I do feel some of you guys care. I really feel bad for those of you that do care. However as James pointed out the track record is not in CNC's favor on this one. Personal and forum responses about this subject from CNC employees have been lack luster as best when talking about this very subject. As we all wished you luck we also all knew you got the short of the stick with this job assignment. Job like yours I am use to taking so with you on that front. This is just my personal experience with dealing with this so far. I think the world of Mastercam for the milling. I can get the job down with it on the turning. The Esprit guy was surprised that I could program with Mastercam and get good code for the Integrex so score one for IN-HOUSE on that front not CNC for it was not for the post it would not be the case. He has been told by many people using Mastercam that the code sucks. I dare to disagree and prove whoever says that is wrong so on that you have my 100% support. I however have no good way to prove out my code with Mastercam at the present time. Good thing I have years of experience with Mazaks and Mastercam and not trying to toot my own horn there. Problem is most people have either, but not both so it takes time for them to get to that point. Esprit with it simulation helps in this area where MASTERCAM has fallen so very far behind on.

 

Good luck on job at hand you have a interesting next 2 years getting this mill/turn to a point where it can compete in a 2008 market.

 

[ 02-20-2008, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Crazy^Millman ]

[YoDoug®]

I spent most of the day working on a post for our new Stars. UGH! It is not going to be a simple post mod. I can't wait for X3.

[Glenn Bouman]

quote:

---

Thanks for the information Ron. Believe it or not there is a team here that cares a lot about multi-task machining.

---

It doesn't matter much the team cares, do the team owners care? maybe you need a bigger, better team.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

It just pisses me off that the "Team Owners" decided router and art were more worthy projects than mill-turn. I got a question for the folks at CNC "how's that workin' out for ya?" Donn't worry though. I'll keep a tally goin for you on lost sales that I know ofM

[MIL-TFP-41]

quote:

---

I'll keep a tally goin for you on lost sales that I know ofM

---

Not to mention all customers who wisely jumped ship. If anyone thinks they are getting their $$$ worth from maintenance on lathe then I got ocean front property here in Utah for them....Despite what the marketing team says very little has changed in lathe since V8. 7 year of development has yielded a new interface & translators....& now they are telling us to wait for X3 MR1...however my money would be on X4 or later. Prove me wrong CNC....

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...my money would be on X4 or later...

---

Unfortunately, that's probably going to be the case.

 

I'd just like them to be honest for a change. THAT would be refreshing.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Bummer. I want a twin spindle live tooled machine. I DON'T want to have to learn another piece of software.

Sucks.....

[crazy^millman]

I am at the point I am ready to learn a new software. UG has Vericut as part of its package and the owner like their software. I would always have Mastercam to get the job done until I learned something new.

 

On a sales side of things Esprit sale guy told me they do $20,000,000 a year in sales and I would say probably 50% is what Mastercam has lost. So if you were nice and said only 25% of possible Mastercam sales went to Espirt then that is only $35,000,000 os sales lost to them because of not having a Mill/Trun product seems like a wise choice to me.

[Cjones]

I know price talk is shun upon. But i'm not asking about MC so hope this is cool. What is ballpark price for something like partmaker or esprit? Between 5K-10K or over 10K.

Chris

[crazy^millman]

For what we needed for the Integrex and 4 axis Okuma was over 40k with posts for each from Espirt.

[IntegrexMan]

Espirt is a rather high end software. I would love to try it for our Integrex machines, but no way could I get them to spend 40k considering we have around 20 seats of MasterCAM. The post for our Integrex's is pretty bullet proof (Thanks Brett), so I can't complain too much, but I know that MasterCAM has talked about a Mill/Turn package forever and for them to be competitive, they better get moving. That seems to be more where the machine tool builders are going and with more complex parts and machines, something has to be done.

Just my $.05 (inflation), $.02 isn't enough anymore.

[cadman2112]

CNC Software????

 

:crickets:

[MIL-TFP-41]

Teh shop I know of that changed from Mastercam lathe to something else also dropped mill...Other packages prove capable at milling also. Its not that these places wanted to get rid of mill, but having multiple programming solutions proved to be a PITA. Training people to use more than one package was a headache, the maintenance cost involved for multiple packages didn't prove worth while

[Greg Williams]

quote:

---

Bummer. I want a twin spindle live tooled machine. I DON'T want to have to learn another piece of software.

---

Jim the current lathe package can handle a twin spindle single turret lathe with X,Z,C,Y,W and B axis with Live tooling very well.

 

It is twin turrets that are the problem.